Shooting

[nitroman]

Good on ya. It's not that hard to get into if you just do it! I'd reccomend a .22 bolt action for starters. I have had a BRNO model 2 .22 for 20 odd years and love it. You really need to scope out the gun shops and have a feel of a few guns, and you'll soon decide what's right for you. Look, weight, feel, action, price all come into it, but at the end of the day it's a personal preferance. When i went looking for a larger centre fire rifle i found that most of the guns being pushed on me at the gun shops didn't feel right. I then went out and had a shot with my BRNO and it felt perfect to me. I then decided that gun was what i wanted only with more power, so I checked out a CZ in.223 (cz is the new name for BRNO) and it felt right so i bought one and haven't regretted it.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by nitroman

Good on ya. It's not that hard to get into if you just do it! I'd reccomend a .22 bolt action for starters. I have had a BRNO model 2 .22 for 20 odd years and love it. You really need to scope out the gun shops and have a feel of a few guns, and you'll soon decide what's right for you. Look, weight, feel, action, price all come into it, but at the end of the day it's a personal preferance. When i went looking for a larger centre fire rifle i found that most of the guns being pushed on me at the gun shops didn't feel right. I then went out and had a shot with my BRNO and it felt perfect to me. I then decided that gun was what i wanted only with more power, so I checked out a CZ in.223 (cz is the new name for BRNO) and it felt right so i bought one and haven't regretted it.

This is pretty reasonable advice OpT. Leave the 22/250 out of it at present. Just looking at your posts through this thread this is on the right track for you.
The Bruno No.2 is a quality reliable firearm, although there are a number of others these days in the same class.
The 22/250 Remington is a center fire cartridge and factory loads are expensive. If you want to do some center fire shooting reloading id the best option. So stick to Rimfire now and work up.
PM me if I can assist further.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Burnedout

The Bruno No.2 is a quality reliable firearm, although there are a number of others these days in the same class.

Oh yeah, the Bruno, niiiice gun, a mate had one, smooth as silk.

[Duke]

Excellent guys thank you very much. I found this one... http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/rifle.html cz .223 never fired for $850.
It's nice looking. How would you describe the .223 to the .22?
Never used a .223, is it the next step up from a .22? albeit a centrefire.

Burnedout, thank you kindly, I'm quite serious about getting into it again after 22 years and I may just take you up on that offer for extra help. Cheers.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by OpTrader

cz .223 never fired for $850.
I How would you describe the .223 to the .22?
Never used a .223, is it the next step up from a .22? albeit a centrefire.

Burnedout, thank you kindly, I'm quite serious about getting into it again after 22 years and I may just take you up on that offer for extra help. Cheers.

OK, The .222 Remington and the .223 Remington without getting toooo Techo are very similar. The .223 Rem is just a little larger in case capacity and is known in Military circles as the 5.65 NATO it is the current standard NATO round in use in many countries. As to which is better, well you could argue as to "how many Fairies you can fit on the head of a pin."
There ARE outlets which supply 5.65 ammo cheaper than sporting stuff, however you don't need this stuff as it will most likely be the SS20 round. Don't ask what that is... needs hours to explain.
Any CENTER FIRE round needs to be reloaded to keep an economy of scale for the operator owner. Rimfires are limited by effective range, for example Rabbits can be taken effectively by a .22 Rimfire to say 100 yards. Where a small capacity .22 Center fire can take Rabbits to say 200 yards. Large capacity .22 Center fires can (in the hands of a good/expert shooter), range on rabbits to 400 yards.( 22/250, 224 Wea Mag, 220 swift).
As the ballistic diameter of the Center fire round increases, .243. 270. .284, .300 etc so does the size of the game which may be taken humanly at a given range.
See why you need to PM me......???????

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Burnedout

OK, The .222 Remington and the .223 Remington without getting toooo Techo are very similar. The .223 Rem is just a little larger in case capacity and is known in Military circles as the 5.65 NATO it is the current standard NATO round in use in many countries. As to which is better, well you could argue as to "how many Fairies you can fit on the head of a pin."
There ARE outlets which supply 5.65 ammo cheaper than sporting stuff, however you don't need this stuff as it will most likely be the SS20 round. Don't ask what that is... needs hours to explain.
Any CENTER FIRE round needs to be reloaded to keep an economy of scale for the operator owner. Rimfires are limited by effective range, for example Rabbits can be taken effectively by a .22 Rimfire to say 100 yards. Where a small capacity .22 Center fire can take Rabbits to say 200 yards. Large capacity .22 Center fires can (in the hands of a good/expert shooter), range on rabbits to 400 yards.( 22/250, 224 Wea Mag, 220 swift).
As the ballistic diameter of the Center fire round increases, .243. 270. .284, .300 etc so does the size of the game which may be taken humanly at a given range.
See why you need to PM me......???????

.223 rem is 5.56x45mm and the common military versions are SS109 (68g) and M193 (55g). The rest of your post is just as accurate.
Be aware there are several people on here who actually know quite a lot about these things.

[normxb]

Ok , now you have Applied for & Received your licence , selected and purchased your firearm/s , relative to which type of game or type of target required .

Next Important thing to do , is approach the landholder where you wish to go shooting . It is Very Necessary ( especially if you are going Spotlighting) to :-

1/ Find the boundaries of the particular persons farm .

2/ Find out how the farm is divided up and the placement of Gates (always making sure you "Close the Gate" securely after you go through )

3/ Find out what stock is being kept in each particular Paddock and How Many . If possible , visit the farm in "Daylight" . A good Idea is to "Draw a Map" do not rely on memory , Remember You Are Not Playing With "Toys".

4/ Find out where the neighbouring houses are located ( very carefully marking them on your map ) . If possible , notify the neighbours of the day and what times you expect to be there .

5/ Locate ANY creek's , Log's , Tree Stump's & Dam's Etc. This is not as silly as it sounds , it's very Necessary . Once again , mark them on your Map .

6/ And finally most "Important" , Carefully select Who goes with You .....
My brother used to go shooting , and there is not one of those guy's I would take with me .

I went to Manduramah (near Bathurst) once , the Mrs and 3 mates , one said "I'm never going shooting with you again , you're too strict" , that was fine with me . He wanted to be first over the fences (rifle pointing anywhere) , shooting at anything that moved , he wanted to be first , just not my idea of a safe person .

My rules are , person to the Left shoots "90 deg" from Left to centre . person in the centre shoots 45 deg Left to 45 deg Right , person on the Right shoots from centre to 90 deg Right . The other 2 follow behind carrying Ammo and helping get over fences . Then rotate positions so everybody can have a go "safely"..... Too strict ? I think not , you are only dead ONCE .

Being raised on a Farm and owning some small acreage of my own , you will always be allowed back . Act like a "Derro" you won't .

"Just a bit of advice to new shooters , up to you if you want to take notice ."

Norm

[dallasv8]

my old man got me my first bb gun when i was 3,not that i could use it then , it was a crossman that took 10 pumps or so.in grade 8 i got a german break barrel .177 slug gun.(we always had one of them chinese crappers to target shoot with as well)

grade 9 i got a 5 shot .22 with a scope.used mainly for rabbits and cats.rabbits are not bad chewing if cooked right and fresh.

bought a model 94 winchester 30/30 lever action when i was 16 off my boss which i would say is my weapon of choice .great for when you hit a mob of pigs and need to knock a few pigs off quick and bullets dont travel for miles.its now found its way into dads care and knives and dogs have become the pig chasing utensils these days with the 30/30 only every getting used if the dogs are in trouble.the m1 30 carbine and skk of the old mans were good for pigs too.

at 18 me and a mate bought gamo .177 slug guns with scopes to get rid of a few sparrows and to do a bit of target shooting while camping.

the old mans got them all now but i think in the near future ill buy a new slug gun and 30/30 and he can keep the old ones

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by HLC

no you can buy pump-action rifles here in NSW. they can only have magazines which hold up to 5 rounds though.

Yeah I know,I had one,I stuffed up the wording in my the post.
Since when has it been a 5 round mag round thing, all the shops sold 10 round aftermarket magazines since a couple years ago that I had a look

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by normxb

Ok , now you have Applied for & Received your licence , selected and purchased your firearm/s , relative to which type of game or type of target required .

Next Important thing to do , is approach the landholder where you wish to go shooting . It is Very Necessary ( especially if you are going Spotlighting) to :-

1/ Find the boundaries of the particular persons farm .

2/ Find out how the farm is divided up and the placement of Gates (always making sure you "Close the Gate" securely after you go through )
Except if the gate is left open,if it is leave it open.

3/ Find out what stock is being kept in each particular Paddock and How Many . If possible , visit the farm in "Daylight" . A good Idea is to "Draw a Map" do not rely on memory , Remember You Are Not Playing With "Toys".

4/ Find out where the neighbouring houses are located ( very carefully marking them on your map ) . If possible , notify the neighbours of the day and what times you expect to be there .

5/ Locate ANY creek's , Log's , Tree Stump's & Dam's Etc. This is not as silly as it sounds , it's very Necessary . Once again , mark them on your Map .

6/ And finally most "Important" , Carefully select Who goes with You .....
My brother used to go shooting , and there is not one of those guy's I would take with me .

I went to Manduramah (near Bathurst) once , the Mrs and 3 mates , one said "I'm never going shooting with you again , you're too strict" , that was fine with me . He wanted to be first over the fences (rifle pointing anywhere) , shooting at anything that moved , he wanted to be first , just not my idea of a safe person .

My rules are , person to the Left shoots "90 deg" from Left to centre . person in the centre shoots 45 deg Left to 45 deg Right , person on the Right shoots from centre to 90 deg Right . The other 2 follow behind carrying Ammo and helping get over fences . Then rotate positions so everybody can have a go "safely"..... Too strict ? I think not , you are only dead ONCE .

Being raised on a Farm and owning some small acreage of my own , you will always be allowed back . Act like a "Derro" you won't .

"Just a bit of advice to new shooters , up to you if you want to take notice ."

Norm

Good advice Norm,I added something to number 2 I think is important,you wouldnt want to keep someones stock from accessing water.
I have a place where guys come and have a shoot from time to time,and I too am quite strict,a few situations with cowboys made me so...

[HLC]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Yeah I know,I had one,I stuffed up the wording in my the post.
Since when has it been a 5 round mag round thing, all the shops sold 10 round aftermarket magazines since a couple years ago that I had a look

oh? that was just an assumption on my part. we'd been selling pump-action .223's recently and they only had 5 round mags... although if you could get your hands on some AR15 mags, they slotted right in lol

[nitroman]

[QUOTE=OpTrader]Excellent guys thank you very much. I found this one... http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/rifle.html cz .223 never fired for $850.
It's nice looking. How would you describe the .223 to the .22?
Never used a .223, is it the next step up from a .22? albeit a centrefire.

You've got to decide what you want to shoot at. I found that I was shooting larger game at longer distances so I needed more power to get the distance shots in, so I went for the .223. Bear in mind that a .22 projectile goes 1200-1500fps and a .223 projectile goes approx 3000-3500 fps and will travel about 5 kays (in about 5 seconds!) so you need to be shooting somewhere where you know where the bullet is going to go. Comparing a .22 to a .223 is like comparing a festiva to a Gt cobra! One goes a hellava lot faster.
Sounds like a good deal for the CZ though....

[Duke]

Originally Posted by nitroman

You've got to decide what you want to shoot at. I found that I was shooting larger game at longer distances so I needed more power to get the distance shots in, so I went for the .223. Bear in mind that a .22 projectile goes 1200-1500fps and a .223 projectile goes approx 3000-3500 fps and will travel about 5 kays (in about 5 seconds!) so you need to be shooting somewhere where you know where the bullet is going to go. Comparing a .22 to a .223 is like comparing a festiva to a Gt cobra! One goes a hellava lot faster.
Sounds like a good deal for the CZ though....

thanks for the advice Nitro - At best, I might nail a few rabbits but even when I used to shoot 20 odd years ago, I was more comfortable shooting targets. If I was helping a landowner by doing the rabbits I'd be okay with that, or small pests in general (I wish I could do the Myna birds around here! mongrel things). I've crawled on my belly through long grass to get close to roos but then I just sat and watched them through the scope for about 20 minutes before watching them hop away.... no desire to kill I guess.

[nitroman]

Originally Posted by OpTrader

thanks for the advice Nitro - At best, I might nail a few rabbits but even when I used to shoot 20 odd years ago, I was more comfortable shooting targets. If I was helping a landowner by doing the rabbits I'd be okay with that, or small pests in general (I wish I could do the Myna birds around here! mongrel things). I've crawled on my belly through long grass to get close to roos but then I just sat and watched them through the scope for about 20 minutes before watching them hop away.... no desire to kill I guess.

If i were you I would get a .22. Get a nice quality gun with a nice (say leopold) scope that'll be dead accurate and you'll love the experience even if you're shooting cans. The ammo is cheap too!

[Booka]

Originally Posted by flappist

Guns are baaaaddd mm'kay.......

WTF are you nucking futs wat makes guns bad huh

[Bent8]

You've got to decide what you want to shoot at. I found that I was shooting larger game at longer distances so I needed more power to get the distance shots in, so I went for the .223. Bear in mind that a .22 projectile goes 1200-1500fps and a .223 projectile goes approx 3000-3500 fps and will travel about 5 kays (in about 5 seconds!) so you need to be shooting somewhere where you know where the bullet is going to go. Comparing a .22 to a .223 is like comparing a festiva to a Gt cobra! One goes a hellava lot faster.
Sounds like a good deal for the CZ though....

Yep, the 5.56x45mm (.223) round relies on it's speed for maximum effect, it's designed to tumble when it hits the target causing a large wound...when fired from an M16, it's muzzle velocity is over 3000fps!!...that's faster than most 30cal hunting rifles!

They are known for overpenetration at close range which is why spec ops use MP5's and the relatively new P90's (5.7x28mm).

H&K tried to make a caseless round (4.7x33mm) in the 80's with their G11 Rifle...it had 50rnd mags and weighed 4.2kg loaded...according to wikipedia, the US Army may start using this round in the future.

[Booka]

Hey guy's, My dad and I have a couple of gun's, 49 isnt a lot is it????
I just bought a HK R8 .223 nice tidy unit, still having trouble getting it into the country, well not me personly but the HK systems bloke's, I hope it comes in soon it will be so cool.

Yer good luck with the CZ very nice gun's we've had 3 or 4 good luck and good shooting to all.

Tristo

[HLC]

Originally Posted by tristo 4.0

Hey guy's, My dad and I have a couple of gun's, 49 isnt a lot is it????
I just bought a HK R8 .223 nice tidy unit, still having trouble getting it into the country, well not me personly but the HK systems bloke's, I hope it comes in soon it will be so cool.

Yer good luck with the CZ very nice gun's we've had 3 or 4 good luck and good shooting to all.

Tristo

HK Systems are tossers : the amount of trouble we had to go through to get our USP Match, and then a holster for it :togo:

[flappist]

Originally Posted by tristo 4.0

WTF are you nucking futs wat makes guns bad huh

[normxb]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Good advice Norm,I added something to number 2 I think is important,you wouldnt want to keep someones stock from accessing water.
I have a place where guys come and have a shoot from time to time,and I too am quite strict,a few situations with cowboys made me so...

Yep , nugget , thanks mate , one of the things I missed . I probably missed a couple of other things , like one City guy thought he was "on a Bonanza" on my cousins place once and "got 7" before they ran away , trouble is they had "Blue eyes" (Sheep) and not "Red" eyes (Foxes) , least he had the guts to admit it and paid for them , lots don't .

Norm

[Duke]

Visited the local gun shop in Gosford yesterday. The fella was quite helpful and spent a good 1/2 hour explaining things to me and ofering his opinions and advice.

Seems gun folk are similar to Ford folk - a very accomodating and friendly bunch.

He says I can't go past the BRNO cz .22 bolt for value and accuracy - he explained the 22 short, 22 long, 22 LR and 22 Mag to me. He showed me the synthetic stocks which seem to make sense in terms of keeping prices low through volulme production, but I just can't turn my eyes away from those Henry lever actions... And from what he says, the lever have the benefit of accepting the various sizes of 22 whereas the bolt action is less accepting.

Henry is around $650, about $400 for the bolt action.... and $300 for a cabinet. All up I'm looking at around $1,000... seems good... unless I get both lever and bolt

[nitroman]

It sounds like 'your gun shop is on the money. Like I said ,it's all personal preferance. Lever actions are nice and fast, and compact, but I believe you get more accuracy in a bolt action. I'm not too crazy about the look and feel of synthetic stocks, but apparently they retain accuracy better when the climate varies (not porous like wood). Go with your heart!

[2fishingdogs]

Well recently got back into shooting and bought a Slazenger .22 single shot with open sights for $20( yes before tennis gear they made rifles ). Finally found the right ammo and is more accurate then most of the scoped rifles @ 100m at the gun club and some fellas there have paid over $1000 for theirs : .
The my next purchuse was Spanish military FR8, chamber in Nato 7.62. Which has a kar98 action and butt. Mated to an assault rifle barrel and still a bolt action. A very impressive looking rifle.

I have been taking my boys out to the range and use the same principle as the car scene. If I show them that you can have fun and meet great people with out being an idiot.

[nitroman]

Got your new gun yet Duke?

[herbs]

What do we reckon about Brno bolt action .22s? Had a look at a couple of 2nd handies yesterday and they felt very nice, in good condition too, just under $400. I could go cheaper and get a new Stirling .22, looked alright but I think the Brno would be the way to go. Thoughts?

[2fishingdogs]

Brno's are alright. IMO better than sterlings. But always depends on how they have been looked after.

[Duke]

This is like walking through deep mud with gum boots on... a slow process, but things are progressing...

The permit to handle a rifle without a license (what the...?) arrived today, this gives me the ability to undertake firearms safety training (Thurs/Fri) which is a couple of steps closer to the goal.

Still need a letter from someone with property so I can get the license to shoot in the bush.

[fordomatic]

nothing better than sitting behind a 50cal and letting her rip.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

nothing better than sitting behind a 50cal and letting her rip.

"Nothing better"?... surely some kind of activity with a girl would rate higher?
Just kidding - :

Thanks to Howard I had to sell my pistol collection which consisted of .45 combat special, ruger 357 stainless security special, colt new frontier 22, ruger old army 44 black powder , browning .32 auto nickel plated, uberti 44 army colt , uberti 36 black powder navy colt.
then there was an m1 carbine , pump action mossberg 12 gauge, then sold off the rest of collection, beretta 55, 303 converted to .25, 308 spanish carbine, 30/30 & 44 mag winchester lever actions, miroku 22 lever action, my brothers got all the original 303 s including a number 4 queens badge target rifle full wood and a number 1 long tom , an arasaka jap rifle , cant remeber the others , havent fired a shot for years just lost interest, did a lot of pig shooting at lightning ridge and rabbits at kilmore in Vic ,