should police stop high speed chases

[Wally]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

Staunch as a copper.... didn’t know that making you a copper made you unhuman....

fact is I wouldn’t be thinking that I had contributed to their deaths at all, I had done all in my power to stop this DH from doing more damage/carnage and bring him to justice, he failed to have a living brain cell in his body so he decided to take it upon "HIMSELF" to be reckless and ultimately kill someone else in the process.

NO blood on the police forces hands as far as im concerned.

How about we just extend the fact that police don’t turn up to holdups/break and enters/hostage situations in case the moron decides to take out civilians as well... you have a very twisted point of view.

I answered with how I would feel. Obviously you can console yourself you did it for king and country, for the good of humanity, a gungho kinda guy,etc. There are alot of ex soldiers out there who would have thought the same thing, until the nightmares started. No doubt there will be two rooky cops who will need intensive treatment to overcome the guilt that is going to follow them forever.

Throwing a segue argument about armed robbery and other crimes is apples and oranges. There is about 300 gun related deaths in Oz each year. About 45 of them are criminal, accidental about 20 and the rest suicide. Thugs armed with knives and guns are looking for provocation and purpose, they pose a clear and obvious risk to civilians. Police can't tell if there is a maniac in a car or someone taking fright, they wouldn't have known in this instance he was a recidivist, they didn't know it was a stolen car as it ran the RBT. Hostage situations are usually talked out, not solved by barrage.

Culling citizens because they don't play ball is dehumanising our culture and that is truely twisted. Who next, the school yard bully... kill him before he grows up and causes mayhem, abort the foetus because his dad is a crim, napalm Broady, pack the poor off in wood ships to penal colonies,

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes but your idea is the controlling of EVERYBODY just in case one is a dangerous maniac.

Dangerous precedent.........

That is true but we are not talking about just one person are we?

Such a system is not controlling anyone, it is passive until you "need it". Most would forget it is there but be thankful it is if their car is ever caught. I know I would have liked it being fitted the second time my Grp A was stolen and the police chased it half the night.

Anyway, just an idea, I am not going to sell it. It would be good seeing some other serious ideas that do not involve rocket launchers (sorry 4V Man, I don't think the public will like that one

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Maybe an idea would of been to have local PD up ahead lay spike strips down, but really 20/20 hindsight is golden

Need a lot more police for that to be an option - where would you find an available car with the spike strips etc close enough to be of help in the current situation? I think all states are in the same boat here.

Re the comment that there are 4x the number of chases in NSW per capita than LA - I would suggest the consequences in LA are much higher.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

5) GPS jammers are available NOW for about $20. http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...ammer&gs_rfai=

I'm one step ahead of everyone, heres mine:

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Re the comment that there are 4x the number of chases in NSW per capita than LA - I would suggest the consequences in LA are much higher.

Exactly.

You run = loss of licence for life
driving without licence = manditory gaol term
work the people in gaol to cover part of the cost of incarceration

Where's a Gulag when you need one

[MITCHAY]

They don't chase and the offender crashes into innocent people and everyone would say where were the police.

They do chase and the offender crashes into innocent people and you have people say they shouldn't of chased. You can't win, even though the result is the same.

You have to remember that when police are pursuing offenders, THEIR LIFE is also on the line too. I don't think they make this decision lightly.

[toughtimes]

Abort chase mr plod, if and when you do catch the criminal , convictions = theft of a motor vehicle (value = who really cares) wreckless driving, dangerous driving, resisting arrest, failure to stop etc. Hardly worth the risk of a fatality.

[blkvt8]

if they do stop chasing then wouldnt every lowlife do a runner..... speed off kill someone torch the car .... mmmmmmmm off scott free . that does not work ither

[UNR8D]

Culling citizens because they don't play ball is dehumanising our culture and that is truely twisted. Who next, the school yard bully... kill him before he grows up and causes mayhem, abort the foetus because his dad is a crim, napalm Broady, pack the poor off in wood ships to penal colonies,

sure why not...

Exactly.

You run = loss of licence for life
driving without licence = manditory gaol term
work the people in gaol to cover part of the cost of incarceration

Where's a Gulag when you need one

you get rep for that comment well said.

[BHDOGS]

Rather then doing long draw out chases give the police the power to shoot the crap out of the engine wheels and driver to stop the chase immediately a high powered assault rifle should solve the problem of runners and innocent people being killed.

[JC]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Rather then doing long draw out chases give the police the power to shoot the crap out of the engine wheels and driver to stop the chase immediately a high powered assault rifle should solve the problem of runners and innocent people being killed.

All well and good, until a stray bullet hits someone, or the car travelling at 150 with a dead driver hits someone.

Keep in mind, the police had called off the chase when this accident happened - the idiot probably would have been speeding anyway - he did blow past the RBT at speed in the first place, so chances are the accident would have happened had the police not taken up the chase in the first place. The driver was 3 six packs short of a case, so dangerous to anyone and everyone, as we all found out.

[Nate_Dog]

Originally Posted by Wally

Inviting the govt and it's law arm in is like inviting the devil to high tea, he'll spoil the milk and refuse to leave.

what he said


sort of like

"So this is how Liberty dies, with thunderous applause"

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by Polyal

But if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear?

Whilst you are right, most people (me included) skip a beat when a HWP comes past, even though I'm not speeding, I still have that moment of "oh crap"

If someone had a HWP behind them lights on, and they wonder how long its been there, and if its now a "chase" and they face 10 years jail, I can bet they would start to do unrational things

[merlin]

I think our police could learn a lot from the American highway patrol - they should look at their systems and talk to their cops and maybe adopt some of their regulations and training.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by merlin

I think our police could learn a lot from the American highway patrol - they should look at their systems and talk to their cops and maybe adopt some of their regulations and training.

I was pulled over for general inspection 6 times over there recently..
They are checking for drugs and explosives... Usually have a drug dog with them also.. I was amassed at the amount of guys with driver handcuffed 20m in front of car while interviewing his passengers behind the car... This was on most state boarders, mainly east states...

[ch33z1l]

Originally Posted by blkvt8

if they do stop chasing then wouldnt every lowlife do a runner..... speed off kill someone torch the car .... mmmmmmmm off scott free . that does not work ither

If we adopted a system similar to the UK of using choppers with thermal imaging to track offenders movements, chases could be called off when there is a identifiable risk to civilians or extreme speeds are reached. In alot of cases, offenders would abandon the car and hide somewhere, whilst pursuit vehicles could be directed to the scene.

[Black F6]

Every chase involving choppers ive seen the morons drive harder trying to get away

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by ch33z1l

If we adopted a system similar to the UK of using choppers with thermal imaging to track offenders movements, chases could be called off when there is a identifiable risk to civilians or extreme speeds are reached. In alot of cases, offenders would abandon the car and hide somewhere, whilst pursuit vehicles could be directed to the scene.

I wouldn't say the UK system is the best - first off it would be quite cost prohibitive to have constant airborne support for such a chase that occured in Canberra. As stated previously, the Canberra chase lasted only 5 minutes - even if a helicopter was airborne in Canberra, it would have taken over 5 minutes for the helicopter to orientate itself.

Second off - the UK system is very "hands on"; apart from their high use of spike strips, many of the various police units in the UK use what techniques known as "controlled stops" where they will purposefully hit, or clip the offending vehicle to cause it to stop (or crash).

[SB076]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Dont chase them.. Shoot the bastard's..

I agree with this and we could blend this in with Geckos suggestion

Police - Driver is attempting to get away at high speed
Control - Negioate with driver and advise not to travel at high speed
Police - Negioation sent at 1000 metres per second
Police - Negioation concluded
Control - Nice shot

As for a serious answer I think its difficult issue thats needs to be looked at in case by case scenario - But Police should have the right to be able to uphold the law. If Police were not allowed to chase how many more drivers would run and put all of us at risk.

Question if police were no longer able to chase would the driver in question abide by the road rules? I think not - they were already doing something wrong to attract police attention in the first place.

[VSSII]

Originally Posted by jeep_by_ford

The police procedures on police pursuits in NSW need to be looked at, The coroner has been calling for a review for the past 10 years to bring it into line with other states and worlds best practise but the NSW police force refuse.

What puzzles me is that with a smaller population and a lower crime rate nsw has 4 times the number of police chases as los angelas, surely something doesnt stack up there.

NSW police have done a lot actually. The previous Coroner of many many years John Abernathy actually had the opposite opinion and even commented in the SMH.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/forme...0103-lnda.html

The current Coroner Mary Jerram is considered by many to be anti police.http://archive.lee.greens.org.au/ind.../view/1254/87/

NSW have a shi&load more chases than LA? Maybe because the definition of a chase is different to LA.
http://www.pursuit.com.au/pursuit-ar...ursuit-policy/

Took me 5 mins to look this up but hey, I wanted to make an informed contribution to the debate.
The internet, giving a voice to the uninformed and uneducated since 1983.

[fox76]

This story takes another turn.



http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/lo ... 84630.aspx

Crash victim faced car theft charges
BY NOEL TOWELL, LEGAL AFFAIRS REPORTER
24 Mar, 2010 08:24 AM
Canberra man Scott Oppelaar was on bail facing car theft charges when he and his family were killed by serial joyrider Justin Williams in Saturday night's horror car smash.

The day before his death, Oppelaar had been ordered by a court to stay away from girlfriend Samantha Ford, who died beside him in the wreckage of their car along with the couple's three-month old son Brody.

Williams, 23, died in Canberra Hospital soon after the accident on Canberra Avenue in Narrabundah just after 10pm on Saturday and his passenger and girlfriend, 18-year-old Skye Webbe, is still fighting for her life in the hospital and was described last night as being in a serious but stable condition.

Like Williams, Oppelaar had a lengthy criminal history going back to his teenage years with many convictions for driving offences and stolen cars, and like the killer driver, who he knew well, Oppelaar also had car theft charges before the courts when tragedy struck on Saturday night.

Williams was driving a stolen Mazda 626 and being chased by NSW Police northbound along Canberra Avenue on Saturday night when he smashed into the Mazda 3 occupied by the troubled couple and their infant child.

Police say they had broken off the chase before Williams drove through a red light at the junction of the Monaro Highway at an estimated speed of 150km/h and destroyed Opelaar's car.

Oppelaar, who used the alias Scott Raymond Mills, spent Thursday night, the second last night of his life, in police cells after being arrested for smashing up a car belonging to his girlfriend and was granted bail on strict conditions the following morning.

He was also charged with riding in a stolen motor vehicle.

Oppelaar's lengthy adult criminal history, going back to 1994 when he was 18, was remarkably similar to that of the man who killed him and his family.

Oppelaar had been sentenced for numerous traffic offences, including riding in stolen cars, driving while disqualified, driving unregistered and uninsured vehicles.

He also had convictions for common assault, burglary, trespass and furious and reckless driving and possessing stolen property.

Ms Ford was a convicted drug dealer and was last dealt with in the courts last year for possessing ammunition, trafficking in controlled substances and possession of controlled substances.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by fox76

This story takes another turn.



http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/lo ... 84630.aspx

Crash victim faced car theft charges
BY NOEL TOWELL, LEGAL AFFAIRS REPORTER
24 Mar, 2010 08:24 AM
Canberra man Scott Oppelaar was on bail facing car theft charges when he and his family were killed by serial joyrider Justin Williams in Saturday night's horror car smash.

The day before his death, Oppelaar had been ordered by a court to stay away from girlfriend Samantha Ford, who died beside him in the wreckage of their car along with the couple's three-month old son Brody.

Williams, 23, died in Canberra Hospital soon after the accident on Canberra Avenue in Narrabundah just after 10pm on Saturday and his passenger and girlfriend, 18-year-old Skye Webbe, is still fighting for her life in the hospital and was described last night as being in a serious but stable condition.

Like Williams, Oppelaar had a lengthy criminal history going back to his teenage years with many convictions for driving offences and stolen cars, and like the killer driver, who he knew well, Oppelaar also had car theft charges before the courts when tragedy struck on Saturday night.

Williams was driving a stolen Mazda 626 and being chased by NSW Police northbound along Canberra Avenue on Saturday night when he smashed into the Mazda 3 occupied by the troubled couple and their infant child.

Police say they had broken off the chase before Williams drove through a red light at the junction of the Monaro Highway at an estimated speed of 150km/h and destroyed Opelaar's car.

Oppelaar, who used the alias Scott Raymond Mills, spent Thursday night, the second last night of his life, in police cells after being arrested for smashing up a car belonging to his girlfriend and was granted bail on strict conditions the following morning.

He was also charged with riding in a stolen motor vehicle.

Oppelaar's lengthy adult criminal history, going back to 1994 when he was 18, was remarkably similar to that of the man who killed him and his family.

Oppelaar had been sentenced for numerous traffic offences, including riding in stolen cars, driving while disqualified, driving unregistered and uninsured vehicles.

He also had convictions for common assault, burglary, trespass and furious and reckless driving and possessing stolen property.

Ms Ford was a convicted drug dealer and was last dealt with in the courts last year for possessing ammunition, trafficking in controlled substances and possession of controlled substances.

Hmmm...if it weren't for the fact that an innocent infants' life has been taken prematurely in such a senseless and needless tragedy, I would suggest that, that is poetic justice.

Mind you, still does not detract from the fact that all WILLIAMS had to do was man up and pull over.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by ch33z1l

If we adopted a system similar to the UK of using choppers with thermal imaging to track offenders movements, chases could be called off when there is a identifiable risk to civilians or extreme speeds are reached. In alot of cases, offenders would abandon the car and hide somewhere, whilst pursuit vehicles could be directed to the scene.

I agree, but State Gummint won't pay for it...lobby your local member - that's what they are there for.

[TUF_302]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Dont chase them.. Shoot the bastard's..

Sounds like a good idea to me, people who steal other peoples cars are low life scum!

And that woman on ACA last night who blamed the police and not her daughters idiot boyfriend is just as stupid as him :

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by fox76

This story takes another turn.

Seems more like the plot of a D grade movie!

More than just a coincidence?

[Wally]

Wonder what ever happened to De mortuis nil nisi bonum

[JC807]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

I agree, but State Gummint won't pay for it...lobby your local member - that's what they are there for.

...yet they are using chopper$$$$ for tracking speeding motorists along the Hume HWY (and other places). I couldn't believe it when i saw the signs the other day. I mean, how many speeding motorists would you have to catch to fund the chopper being in the sky?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Wally

Wonder what ever happened to De mortuis nil nisi bonum

I wonder how many know the meaning/translation....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I wonder how many know the meaning/translation....

Probably only those members whose computers can access google......

[HLC]

Originally Posted by jeep_by_ford

The police procedures on police pursuits in NSW need to be looked at, The coroner has been calling for a review for the past 10 years to bring it into line with other states and worlds best practise but the NSW police force refuse.

Thats not the fault of the coppers involved so im not bashing police, but something is amiss when the result of trying to apprehend a petty crim is 3 innocent lives.

What puzzles me is that with a smaller population and a lower crime rate nsw has 4 times the number of police chases as los angelas, surely something doesnt stack up there.

the cops can shoot at the crims running in LA.