RTA police cars??

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I hope you are ready for this:

From the Victorian Road Safety Act
13 Power to inspect motor vehicles and trailers
(1) An authorised officer for the purposes of this section or a member of the police force may at any reasonable time inspect a motor vehicle or trailer which is being used on a highway if the officer or member believes on reasonable grounds that—
(a) the driver of the motor vehicle is not complying with this Act or the regulations in driving a motor vehicle of that kind; or
(b) the motor vehicle or trailer does not comply with this Act or the regulations.
(2) An authorised officer for the purposes of this section or a member of the police force may, by notice in accordance with subsection (3), require to be produced for inspection at a place specified in the notice, a motor vehicle or trailer which the officer or member has reasonable grounds for suspecting has within the preceding 30 days been used or will be used on a highway if the officer or member believes on reasonable grounds that—
(a) the driver of the motor vehicle has not complied with this Act or the regulations in driving a motor vehicle of that kind; or
(b) the motor vehicle or trailer does not comply with this Act or the regulations.
(3) A notice must be in writing and must be served on the registered operator or, if the motor vehicle or trailer is not registered, on the owner.
(4) An inspection may include any tests which the inspecting officer or member of the police force decides to be appropriate.
(5) A person who refuses or fails—
(a) to allow a motor vehicle or trailer to be inspected when required under this section;
or
(b) to produce a motor vehicle or trailer for inspection at the place specified in a notice within 7 days after service of the notice on that person—
is guilty of an offence.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.


(6) In this section authorised officer for the purposes of this section means—
(a) an officer of the Corporation authorised in writing by the Corporation for the purposes of this section; or
(ab) a person employed under Part 3 of the Public Administration Act 2004 in the police force of Victoria who is authorised in writing by the Chief Commissioner of Police for the purposes of this section; or
(b) an employee in the Department of Infrastructure authorised in writing by the Secretary to the Department of Infrastructure for the purposes of this section

do you have one for the thread title...RTA nsw..
different states different laws

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by ray38l

Honestly how many people would know what information to look for on an rta identification card? I wouldn't be able to tell a fake from the real deal. It could be anyone pulling me over.

I told my other half... if in doubt, lock them out.

Someone mentioned heading towards the local station.
You could also ring the police saying a suspicious person is attempting to pull you over / has pulled you over. Admittedly it's not very helpful if you are out the back of Woolamakanka.

I was a passenger in a friend's car recently. While stopped at lights a car pulled up along side to talk to him. I thought nice young couple. They were actually general duty officers doing a plain clothes shift. (I only know because they all work together). I wouldn't have picked them or the car in a million years.

ray38l a similar thought to your's, how many people know how to identify a real cop ?

[hawker]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

RTA officers are "authorised officers" of the state.... they all have badges..
I really dont understand how many times does it need to be explained?
You are required by law to pull over when directed by them.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...9373/s229.html

The list you came up with is valid, however, most of those people can only do so much before they call the police, and hand you over. So I see something else in common here.

Canberra has a lot of cases of people pulling people over, and then jacking their car, so as I've directed my girlfriend to do, lock the doors if pulled over and ask to see a warrant card, if they don't provide one, call the police or drive off.

Police are happy to show their warrant card if asked. My girlfriend has already had to do this, she was pulled over by an unmarked Holden, with one headlight out, considering the car is meant to be up to standards, I think she was right to ask to see ID.

Re-reading this thread, I just have to say it seems funny that everyone is up and down about how they 'can pull you over' - but they never seem too (or only in VIC, where it's a police state anyway)? And when they do check your car out, it's normally with the "SHOCK HORROR" police?

Not really an issue with me, if all they can do is defect me, go for it, if either of my cars has a defect, it would most likely be 1 -2 days of getting fixed... But either way, I've never seen an RTA officer pull anyone over, sure, I've seen them inspecting vehicles with the police (actually, that is rare, normally the cops are doing it)...

[Scaffy]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Kind've my point too actually. Personally I'll ignore many laws as many are illogical/unrealistic and only there for revenue purposes. Many on this site seem to get excited whenever the law is here to spite someone, love adding insult after injury whenever someone complains about a speeding fine or whatnot. They love their law, live their life by an unrealistic perception of right and wrong that is actually quite far off right and wrong. The law uses ignorance itself to convict victims, so why not the other way round??

And I have beaten the law with ignorance quite a few times just as many others have, not to mention officers themselves are ignorant and NEVER go buy the book, they'll never defect EVERY car the pull over that is unroadworthy, only the younger drivers, the smart **** drivers, the ones who annoy them or are unfortunate to come across them on a bad day. This is why the law is crap, if it was actually put into full practice the whole country would be having a riot. If every law was actually implemented you'd see how pathetic the precious legal system is. Everyone would be broke as only 0.1% of laws actually go through and instead one in every 1000 gets hit hard. That's how your precious legal system works!!! Laws that weren't even around 30yrs ago that are today. I wonder how many things people did back then that they can't now??? Must mean they're all injust criminals, seeing as the law is right and wrong and right and wrong can't change.

Thing that bugs me is I see a lot of people on here give up when the law is against them, I also see people asking on how to beat the law, challenge an unfair ticket or something. Then some/many clown/s comes in and says YOU DO THAT AND YOU'LL GO TO JAIL, LAW IS ABSOLUTE, SERVES YOU RIGHT, YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED (despite the ticket being unfair in the first place...FACEPALM). They bring karma into it which turns it into a moral issue not an issue of legality. The law is not moral whatsoever, WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD PLEASE AND GET OUT OF YOUR PADDOCK.

I've seen the same members on this forum moan about how unfair the law is only for them to tell others "you deserve what you get, slow down next time".

This is one thing in this community I fail to understand so maybe someone can tell me why:

Why does everyone defend the law so so so so strongly? Where does all the spite come from??

One of the best posts I've come across in these sections. I come in here for a look every now and then and I find there's a general trend in all of the threads that relate to the law - the common stuff and the obscure. I have to wonder, how many people who are so vocal in here have been before the courts, defending themselves for anything? I have, a number of times.

To say ignorance is not a defence, this is correct. However, ignorance can be a mitigating factor when determining punishment for an offence. As has been said, the law is not black and white, like some people will fiercely claim. There is the human element which will always be inconsistent, from police to Judges. If the law were so straight forward, there would be no need for lawyers, then what would all those people who clearly think/wish they were lawyers do with themselves in their free time?

[2011G6E]

I think the difference of oopinion here could be based on what vehicles the transport authorities use in different states.

If in Queensland they used a highly visible and quite obviously identified vehicle like that Victorian Commodore with the striping all over it and lights, there'd be no problem.
But up here, as I said, they are in plain white vans or Falcon utes with canopies, or occasionally older Falcon wagons. They sometimes don't even have the purple light bars on them, just a reflective sticker up the side of the car with "Department of Transport" on it.

But no, they don't just follow a normal car and "pull people over" up here...they will be at the roadside, usually with the cops, doing stops of trucks to weigh them and check logbooks.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think the difference of oopinion here could be based on what vehicles the transport authorities use in different states.

If in Queensland they used a highly visible and quite obviously identified vehicle like that Victorian Commodore with the striping all over it and lights, there'd be no problem.
But up here, as I said, they are in plain white vans or Falcon utes with canopies, or occasionally older Falcon wagons. They sometimes don't even have the purple light bars on them, just a reflective sticker up the side of the car with "Department of Transport" on it.

But no, they don't just follow a normal car and "pull people over" up here...they will be at the roadside, usually with the cops, doing stops of trucks to weigh them and check logbooks.

. Huh last I checked qld used new sv6 or xr6 utes in white with purple reflective markings all over it bit hard to miss really.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by burnz

do you have one for the thread title...RTA nsw..
different states different laws

From the NSW Road Transport (General) Act 2005 No 11

144 Power to inspect vehicle or combination on a road, public place or certain official premises

(cf model provisions, s 36)

(1) Application of section
This section applies to a vehicle or combination located at a place:

(a) on any road, or

(b) in or on any public place, or

(c) in or on any premises occupied or owned by the Authority or by any other public authority,

whether or not the vehicle or combination is unattended.

(2) Power to inspect
An authorised officer may inspect a vehicle or combination for compliance purposes.

(3) The officer may enter the vehicle or combination for the purpose of or in connection with conducting the inspection.

(4) Consent not required
The officer may exercise powers under this section at any time, and without the consent of the driver or other person apparently in charge of the vehicle or combination or any other person.

(5) What power includes
Without limiting the above, the power to inspect a vehicle or combination under this section includes any or all of the following:

(a) the power to weigh, test, measure or take photographs of the vehicle or combination or any part of it or its equipment or load,

(b) the power to check the existence or details of, or take photographs of, placards or other information required by or under an applicable road law or by or under an approved road transport compliance scheme to be displayed in or on the vehicle or combination, including placards or other information relating to its specifications, capabilities or legal entitlements,

(c) the power to inspect and take copies of or extracts from any records that are located in or on the vehicle or combination and that are required to be carried in or on the vehicle or combination by or under an applicable road law or by or under an approved road transport compliance scheme,

(d) the power to access or download information that is required to be kept by or under an applicable road law or by or under an approved road transport compliance scheme and that is:

(i) stored electronically in equipment located in or on the vehicle, or

(ii) accessible electronically from equipment located in or on the vehicle.

(6) Use of force not permitted
This section does not authorise the use of force, but the officer may under this section do any or all of the following:

(a) open unlocked doors and other unlocked panels and objects,

(b) inspect anything that has been opened or otherwise accessed under the power to use reasonable force in the exercise of a power to enter or move a vehicle or combination under Division 3,

(c) move but not take away anything that is not locked up or sealed.


Sourced from: http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/

[Trevor 57]

From the NSW Road Transport (General) Act 2005 No 11


124 Identification cards

(cf model provisions, s 18)

(1) The Authority may:

(a) issue an authorised officer (other than a police officer) with an identification card, or

(b) designate a card, issued to an authorised officer (other than a police officer) by another person, body or authority (whether or not of this jurisdiction), as an identification card for the purposes of this Act.

(2) An identification card issued by the Authority must:

(a) contain a photograph of the officer, the name of the Authority and either:

(i) the name and signature of the officer, or

(ii) a unique number that has been assigned to the officer by the Authority, and

(b) identify the officer as an authorised officer.

(3) The Authority must not designate a card issued to an authorised officer by another person, body or authority as an identification card for the purposes of this Act unless the card:

(a) contains a photograph of the officer, the name of the other person, body or authority and either:

(i) the name and signature of the officer, or

(ii) a unique number that has been assigned to the officer by the other person, body or authority, and

(b) identifies in some way (however expressed) the officer as an authorised officer under another law or as having official functions under another law.

[Trevor 57]

122 Exercise of powers by authorised officers

(cf model provisions, s 15)

(1) An authorised officer has the powers conferred on authorised officers by the road transport legislation.

(2) However, the Authority may, by instrument in writing applicable to a specified authorised officer or each authorised officer of a specified class:

(a) provide that the officer may not exercise specified powers, or

(b) provide that the officer may exercise specified powers only, or

(c) otherwise restrict the powers that the officer may exercise, including (for example) by limiting the circumstances in which the officer may exercise any powers conferred on the officer.

(3) In addition, the regulations may identify powers that may only be exercised by authorised officers, or classes of authorised officers, who are specifically empowered by the Authority under subsection (2) (b) to exercise them.

[Trevor 57]

121 Authorised officers

(cf model provisions, s 14)

(1) The Authority may, by instrument in writing, appoint:

(a) a specified person to be an authorised officer, or

(b) persons of a specified class to be authorised officers.

(2) An authorised officer may but need not be a member of staff of the Authority or of a public authority.

(3) Without limiting the above, an authorised officer as defined in a corresponding applicable road law may be appointed as an authorised officer under this section.

[Trevor 57]

From the Definitions at the start of the NSW Road Transport (General) Act 2005 No 11

authorised officer means:

(a) a police officer, or

(b) a person appointed as an authorised officer, or a class of persons appointed as authorised officers, under section 121 (Authorised officers), or

(c) a person (or a person belonging to a class or description of persons) prescribed by the regulations.




Sorry the number and detail run backward

[Trevor 57]

From the Definitions at the start of the NSW Road Transport (General) Act 2005 No 11

vehicle means:

(a) any description of vehicle on wheels (including a light rail vehicle) but not including any other vehicle used on a railway or tramway, or

(b) any other vehicle prescribed by the regulations.

[DBourne]

Great info you've posted Trev, I'd give karma to you if it was still here (dangit).

[Trevor 57]

This stuff isn't hard to find, you just have to know where to look, nearly all the States have their law up on free websites.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by blownv8au

I bet each of these officers doesn't know all of the laws relating to their section but we as a citizen should as ignorance is no excuse. Are you kidding me, i know what your saying but with alot of these laws you don't know you've broken them till your in the crap.
I've never been made aware that the rta could pull you over while driving but i had them pull me over recently no issue. But i was unaware they could and its an offence not to.

They dont just give out badges to anyone....

Do you think the Fisheries Officer who boards your boat and says these are illegal undersized fish doesnt know what he talking about as he takes away your boat?

These guys would need to know what they are doing (in the same way a police officer needs to know the law back to front before arresting you) because if they stuff it up it means a large court case against them and the department.

Do you think Customs officers dont know what is legal or not when its comes through a shipping container? 9 times out of 10 they do.
Otherwise they will put a hold the container and make sure.

Or when a Health inspector closes a restaurant on a snap inspection without warning?

Sure they wont remember 100% of everything, but in order to become an authorised officer they just dont buy a pack of corn flakes and get given a badge. (though I have met at least one QLD transport officer who appeared to have done just that)....

[burnz]

thanks big trev..your very good at finding the info needed to remove the gray area.

[blownv8au]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

They dont just give out badges to anyone....

Do you think the Fisheries Officer who boards your boat and says these are illegal undersized fish doesnt know what he talking about as he takes away your boat?

These guys would need to know what they are doing (in the same way a police officer needs to know the law back to front before arresting you) because if they stuff it up it means a large court case against them and the department.

Do you think Customs officers dont know what is legal or not when its comes through a shipping container? 9 times out of 10 they do.
Otherwise they will put a hold the container and make sure.

Or when a Health inspector closes a restaurant on a snap inspection without warning?

Sure they wont remember 100% of everything, but in order to become an authorised officer they just dont buy a pack of corn flakes and get given a badge. (though I have met at least one QLD transport officer who appeared to have done just that)....

Couldn't be bothered.

[blownv8au]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think the difference of oopinion here could be based on what vehicles the transport authorities use in different states.

If in Queensland they used a highly visible and quite obviously identified vehicle like that Victorian Commodore with the striping all over it and lights, there'd be no problem.
But up here, as I said, they are in plain white vans or Falcon utes with canopies, or occasionally older Falcon wagons. They sometimes don't even have the purple light bars on them, just a reflective sticker up the side of the car with "Department of Transport" on it.

But no, they don't just follow a normal car and "pull people over" up here...they will be at the roadside, usually with the cops, doing stops of trucks to weigh them and check logbooks.

Their pretty easy to spot up here. But yes i did have one follow me and pull me over, i think the 12in wheels and supercharger whine caught their attention though lol. Had no problems and off they went.

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

From the NSW Road Transport (General) Act 2005 No 11
144 Power to inspect vehicle or combination on a road, public place or certain official premises

... (b) in or on any public place, or ...

Good reading Big Trev
What is the relevant definition of a "public place" ?

[Trevor 57]

Car parks, drive in theatres, footy ground, etc, although these areas are now called "road related areas"

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Car parks, drive in theatres, footy ground, etc, although these areas are now called "road related areas"

ta Trev. "road related areas" gives me a headache. I've been given conflicting answers (from different authorities) about property I own.

[Jim Goose]

If its a business with a public carpark, then it can be considered a road related area...

[AMGC63]

A road related area is basically anywhere you can drive or access with your vehicle, your backyard is a road related area if you can drive your car into it.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

A road related area is basically anywhere you can drive or access with your vehicle, your backyard is a road related area if you can drive your car into it.

oh god here we go again....

i dont need a licence to drive on private land.... the car doesnt need to be roadworthy on private land... or registered....

Your premises is not a road...

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

oh god here we go again....

i dont need a licence to drive on private land.... the car doesnt need to be roadworthy on private land... or registered....

Your premises is not a road...

Go drink drive on your property and see what happens.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

A road related area is basically anywhere you can drive or access with your vehicle, your backyard is a road related area if you can drive your car into it.

Only if there is "public access", if the gate is closed then it is NOT a road related area - sorry.

I had to deal with this law first hand when it first came in back in 1999, under the heavy vehicle licensing requirements a person doing a reversing test is not allowed to have a passenger in the truck/bus, which technically meant that if the 'gates were open' then they were driving unlicenced, the problem was overcome in 2 ways, one was to 'close the gate', the other was to issue the 'learners' with a temporary licence where the 'gate couldn't be closed'. I am not sure what they are doing these days, that was 12 years ago.

From the Vict Road Rules (which is the same in all States)
13 What is a road related area
(1) A road related area is any of the following—
(a) an area that divides a road;
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road;
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated for use by cyclists or animals;
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking motor vehicles;
(e) a place that is a road related area by virtue of a declaration under section 3(2)(a) of the Road Safety Act 1986—
but does not include a place that is not a road related area by virtue of a declaration under section 3(2)(a) of the Road Safety Act 1986.

[Jim Goose]

If the road rules extended to private land then why is farmers can drive unregistered farm machinery on their land?

How does a car yard keep unregistered/ unroadworthy vehicles in their lot without getting fines every single day of the week?

Or a wrecking yard which has a track on the premises?

Thank you big trev for posting that up...

The legislation is NOT designed to be used on private property.
A term which legal eagles use is " in the spirit of the legislation".
I.e: even though there may appear to be greay areas, the legislations INTENT was that it was never written to impede into private land only "public" areas.

"public place" means a place (other than a public street) open to or used by the public or to which the public is permitted to have access whether on payment of a fee or otherwise, but does not include a track in an enclosed area used for motor vehicle or bicycle racing or speed trials.

"public street" means a street, road, lane, thoroughfare, footpath or place open to, or used by, the public and includes a road on land leased under the Special Purposes Leases Act for use as a road, but does not include:

(a) a road, or part of a road, which is closed under the Control of Roads Act or the Local Government Act ; or

(b) a street, road, lane, thoroughfare, footpath or other place under construction,

and not open to or used by the public.

Your land is NOT a public place

[Trevor 57]

But make sure you keep your gate closed, because that is where it gets gray or black and white, depends where you are sitting.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

But make sure you keep your gate closed, because that is where it gets gray or black and white, depends where you are sitting.

Yep, it becomes very grey when it needs to. Bottom line is don't think for one min because you're on private property that you have no obligation to comply with certain aspects of the road laws regarding driving of a vehicle.
People have been charged with reckless driving on private property (ute muster) and drink driving (Qld farm case) before. Both on private property.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Yep, it becomes very grey when it needs to. Bottom line is don't think for one min because you're on private property that you have no obligation to comply with certain aspects of the road laws regarding driving of a vehicle.
People have been charged with reckless driving on private property (ute muster) and drink driving (Qld farm case) before. Both on private property.

WITH GATES OPEN, FFS

The Ute Muster is up the road from me and the gates are always open.

Will you concede the point and stop draggin it on. You are wrong - move on!

I don't know anything at all about the Qld drink driving case, and with out knowing anything, I bet he was driving on a public road when he was noticed by Police and was followed onto private land and arrested, and that is fine because the offence happened on a public road. Correct me if I am wrong