Dealer tactics

[jmac]

Originally Posted by F6E

What's the big deal about needing to test drive a new car ?

You have already made up your mind long before you buy, that's why your looking at that particular car, you've done every iNet search, read evey test drive article, your a fully informed & researched buyer...what I find is you know soooo much more about the car than any of the sales mupetts, a test drive is just a buying sign, you believe you should be able to try before you buy coz it's a lot of $'s. So are houses, you don't ask for a "test live" before you sign on a home ?

Who test drives a new SS, XR, HSV, FPV ...brings it back to the dealer and says "...Nah, that's sheet, hate it " ?

I've never test driven a new car as part of the buying process but I have driven many, many cars just for the hell of it, with absolutely no desire/intention to buy.

Euro Marques have it down pat by supplying you loan vehicles ( when yr in for service, etc) that they think might be on yr buying radar ( always drop that you might be getting out of your current ride )

when in the BM , I've had - M3, 535i, 550i, 650i, X5 3.3, z4 vert and a 325 vert all as FOC loaners......

Obviously it's a flawed tactic as I sold the M5 and bought the F6....

No you don't. How can you decide if you like something with out trying it?
I'm looking at a new f6 or gt, I've driven an f6 before but not a gt and the decision won't be made until I have.

If you are buying purely off motoring "journalists" poor excuse for a review or what every other tom, dick or harry has to say that's pretty average.

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[flappist]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

im afraid if i buy any car i wont be proving i have the money . you dont have to prove you have the money to look at a display home , you dont have to give a holding deposit to look at a $10000 tv . and as far as im concerned a demo is a car thats on display so people can consider buying them and see what they look like . i am very happy for a dealer principle or car salemen to make less income that month because he thinks a demonstration car is a privelige . UP YA CLACKA WITH A CRACKA

Of course you bought a FPV GT not a Bentley GT.

You WILL have to prove you have the money to be taken for a look at an offshore island or DD buying a TV studio.

Big boys rules........

[2011G6E]

I've seen adverts for cars...sometimes even in dealerships...which openly say "no test drives".
Really? Enjoy sitting looking at it gathering dust on your showroom or garage floor then, idiot. I'm not laying down money on something I haven't driven, and it won't be around the block, it will be out of town and onto the highway as well. Cars cost too much to lay down forty grand or more and just go on write ups online or in magazines.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Try before you buy always. I was going to buy either an fpv gs or hsv ssv... drove the f6 and all bets were off.

If someone ever told me I couldn't test drive a vehicle Id purposely sit in the parking lot and wave at them through the window with my new car from a different dealership.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

im afraid if i buy any car i wont be proving i have the money . you dont have to prove you have the money to look at a display home , you dont have to give a holding deposit to look at a $10000 tv . and as far as im concerned a demo is a car thats on display so people can consider buying them and see what they look like . i am very happy for a dealer principle or car salemen to make less income that month because he thinks a demonstration car is a privelige . UP YA CLACKA WITH A CRACKA

You also cant write off a display home or a $10,000 TV and then simply walk away shrugging your shoulders either . Until you guys have sat on the other side of the desk and seen the endless stream of losers , knuckle draggers , mouth breathers , know it alls and motoring " EXPERTS " that invariably show up to " TEST " drive the latest and greatest you have NO idea . On certain cars dealers have every right to establish a potential clients bonafides up front .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

im afraid if i buy any car i wont be proving i have the money . you dont have to prove you have the money to look at a display home , you dont have to give a holding deposit to look at a $10000 tv . and as far as im concerned a demo is a car thats on display so people can consider buying them and see what they look like . i am very happy for a dealer principle or car salemen to make less income that month because he thinks a demonstration car is a privelige . UP YA CLACKA WITH A CRACKA

You also cant write off a display home or a $10,000 TV and then simply walk away shrugging your shoulders either . Until you guys have sat on the other side of the desk and seen the endless stream of losers , knuckle draggers , mouth breathers , know it alls and motoring " EXPERTS " that invariably show up to " TEST " drive the latest and greatest you have NO idea . On certain cars dealers have every right to establish a potential clients bonafides up front . Do any of you guys realise under modern legislation what a dealer would go through if a potential client wiped out an inocent family . The ambulance chasing lawyers would have a field day crucifying the dealer for ignoring their duty of care by simply throwing the keys to any Tom Dick or Harry who walks through the door demanding a " TEST " drive .

[Rodge]

I realise it can't be easy as a car dealer trying to work out if potential buyers are exactly that or just test pilot's. There must be some series of leading questions, qualification criteria or other modus operendi for qualifying buyers rather than asking for money surely ? What they drive now, how well they're dressed, asking what they're looking for in a vehicle, what else they've looked at..surely all these sort of questions should give a skilled salesman some clue ?

The dealer tactic I hate the most is the "guilt trip", you know...look mate i've spent a good hour with you and you've had a good test drive...like that automatically obligates you to buy for goodness sake... it really gets my back up, in fact it's extremly counter productive to getting a sale as far as i'm concerned.

Genuine buyers should be able to make a short list of vehicles they're interested in and be able to evaluate them properly without feeling they're obligated to proceed.

Sucessful dealers / salespeople should be able to work out who's a genuine potential buyer and who isn't...I guess that's what seperates the smart operators out from the also ran's...

[XBROO]

Rodge right there should have a method of sceening people to see, if they are fair dinking or not. And as a lot of cars a bought on finance, then it's a bit hard for them to have a deposite of that size on them. If they pull up with a trade in worth so many dollars wouldn't that be enough.

[Uwish]

@ all the dealer lovers....

When I was younger I wanted to buy an S14A 200sx. I booked a test drive at Parramatta Nissan. Rocked up in my work clothes and the young salesman told me I couldn't test drive the car. After a few choice words were exchanged I left and was not happy. I drove up Parramatta Rd looking for another Nissan dealer...... Spoke to the salesman and I told him what happened. He informed me that the Dealer Principle was there and he owned both sites. Long story short the Parramatta salesman lost his job.

Also when I purchased my VE HSV I went to Parramatta Holden and spoke to a salesman and explained that I am interested in buying a new HSV and I explained that I needed to test drive it as I was coming out of a WRX. I said lets talk $$$ after the test drive as I roughly know what they cost.
They told me to leave the dealership as I had NO intention of buying the car!!
**** them, I went to Hunter Holden, explained what had happened and the next day the Sales lady for HSV pulled a brand new car out of the show room for me to drive.
I signed straight after driving. I called Parramatta to let them know what happened and that the internet can hurt dealers... Needless to say I let loose on LS1.com.au!

[jmac]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

You also cant write off a display home or a $10,000 TV and then simply walk away shrugging your shoulders either .

Dafaq? What's the piece of paper you sign before the drive then? It includes insurance excess details and waivers for fines..

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[wrongwaynorris]

" I realise it can't be easy as a car dealer trying to work out if potential buyers are exactly that or just test pilot's. There must be some series of leading questions, qualification criteria or other modus operendi for qualifying buyers rather than asking for money surely ? What they drive now, how well they're dressed, asking what they're looking for in a vehicle, what else they've looked at..surely all these sort of questions should give a skilled salesman some clue ? "

I do not agree with asking for money up front but if you expect to drive an $80,000.00 plus car let alone a $250,000.00 car with NO obligation you MUST be prepared to establish your bonafides in a polite , clam and courteous manner . my experience has taught me that the genuine buyers usually have NO issue doing this . It is the " TEST " pilots that get all bent out of shape and belligerent when asked the most innocuous of questions . I don't even care to too much how they are dressed if they are tradies but when people show up in thongs , shorts with their **** either hanging out of them or 6 inches of their undies showing above the top and singlets then they have to be expected to be treated with sheer and utter contempt they deserve to be . And yes I have experienced it MANY times .

" The dealer tactic I hate the most is the "guilt trip", you know...look mate i've spent a good hour with you and you've had a good test drive...like that automatically obligates you to buy for goodness sake... it really gets my back up, in fact it's extremly counter productive to getting a sale as far as i'm concerned. '

This is a tactic known in the trade as " bleeding all over the customer " and it is the preserve of the desperate no hoper salesman and yes you are 100% correct Rodge it is EXTREMELY counter productive . Most dealer sales managers and D.P's would not countenenace this if they knew it was going on .

" Genuine buyers should be able to make a short list of vehicles they're interested in and be able to evaluate them properly without feeling they're obligated to proceed. "

Absolutely agree 100% .

" Sucessful dealers / salespeople should be able to work out who's a genuine potential buyer and who isn't...I guess that's what seperates the smart operators out from the also ran's... "

You would be surprised just how easy this is to do by a professional salesman .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by jmac86

Dafaq? What's the piece of paper you sign before the drive then? It includes insurance excess details and waivers for fines..

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And if you were sending someone you don't know from Adam , whom you have just met ten minutes ago out in a high powered and or expensive car you would do exactly the same . And again it is in the dealers duty of care to at a minimum site a licence and get the customers commitment that if he / she damages the goods or god forbid injures or kills an innocent someone that they are prepared to be held responsible for their own actions . Or are you one of these people who believe everything is someone elses fault and you should just skate on anything you do ?

[jmac]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

You also cant write off a display home or a $10,000 TV and then simply walk away shrugging your shoulders either

Originally Posted by jmac86

Dafaq? What's the piece of paper you sign before the drive then? It includes insurance excess details and waivers for fines..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

And if you were sending someone you don't know from Adam , whom you have just met ten minutes ago out in a high powered and or expensive car you would do exactly the same . And again it is in the dealers duty of care to at a minimum site a licence and get the customers commitment that if he / she damages the goods or god forbid injures or kills an innocent someone that they are prepared to be held responsible for their own actions . Or are you one of these people who believe everything is someone elses fault and you should just skate on anything you do ?

Where did you draw that conclusion from?
Its called insurance mate.. You sign your life away before you drive it - end of story.

The dealership has insurance just like any other business, thats like saying you wont let customers into your china shop until they show you money because they could knock something over and break it.
The worse bit is, its not even the sales person's problem. Insurance is obviously covered by the owner of the dealership - as long as the 'sales' person has sighted a valid drivers license / 100 points of ID and has the signed waiver its no longer their responsibility.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jmac86

Where did you draw that conclusion from?
Its called insurance mate.. You sign your life away before you drive it - end of story.

The dealership has insurance just like any other business, thats like saying you wont let customers into your china shop until they show you money because they could knock something over and break it.
The worse bit is, its not even the sales person's problem. Insurance is obviously covered by the owner of the dealership - as long as the 'sales' person has sighted a valid drivers license / 100 points of ID and has the signed waiver its no longer their responsibility.

Really?

Have you ever heard the term "excess" ?

[jmac]

Originally Posted by flappist

Really?

Have you ever heard the term "excess" ?

When you sign the form you agree to pay excess or any damage and any fines accumulated... Thats what the standard waiver says..

[Yellow_Festiva]

I have never signed anything for a test drive that I can recall??

Anyway... it goes both ways. Dale Ford Bankstown wouldn't allow me to test drive a Festiva on their lot for $4990 because it was too cheap.

Seriously...

[XBROO]

Yeah most test drives I have done from a car yard, I had to sign a waiver. I'm pretty sure one of the terms is you crash it you buy it. Of coarse it's worded differently on the form.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

You also cant write off a display home or a $10,000 TV and then simply walk away shrugging your shoulders either . Until you guys have sat on the other side of the desk and seen the endless stream of losers , knuckle draggers , mouth breathers , know it alls and motoring " EXPERTS " that invariably show up to " TEST " drive the latest and greatest you have NO idea . On certain cars dealers have every right to establish a potential clients bonafides up front . Do any of you guys realise under modern legislation what a dealer would go through if a potential client wiped out an inocent family . The ambulance chasing lawyers would have a field day crucifying the dealer for ignoring their duty of care by simply throwing the keys to any Tom Dick or Harry who walks through the door demanding a " TEST " drive .

LOOK MATE I'M HEARING YOU BUT I DONT AGREE .
i've turned up with previous FPV'S to trade in in my mid 30's with 2 young kids and a wife and been given the finger as far as driving , i dont have long hair tatts and flanellette shirts on when i walk in either . so the profile of me must be pretty bad . and if i had tatts long hair etc it shouldnt make a difference really .
the last test drive of an xr6 required 1 minute to fill out a damage excess form of $3000 in cass of an accident whilst driving , i signed without a problem , but even then i thought it was a little harsh seeing the sealer is in the business and should have insurance cover for demonstrators , and it was a 2nd hand na xr6 .
when a 40 year old well dressed man walks into a dealer with a tradein of a similar vehicle with a wife and two children and gets questioned or profiled about wealth and suitability to drive a car , i think the salesman should really be shovelling shyyte for a living and not selling cars . he would be costing the dealership a lot more than he is saving . and you can demolish a display home if you want to , even by accident , or fall down the stairs or whatever , they still let you in .Infact . the display homes often get worn carpet , used toilets and scratched floors , but i'm sure insurance covers things as such or the price is reduced on the display home , ohh wait , i think they do that with demonstrators too dont they . ???
of course theres tyre kickers out there . who cares . you shouldnt have to be a buyer to take a look and have a drive .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Yeah most test drives I have done from a car yard, I had to sign a waiver. I'm pretty sure one of the terms is you crash it you buy it. Of coarse it's worded differently on the form.

Most dealers will NOT enforce a sale but will very aggressively pursue payment of the excess if it is not forthcoming . Sadly in most cases it is NOT forthcoming without threatening legal action .

[gtfpv]

the couple down the road were in their 20s in 2004 , THEY WANTED A NEW XR8 . they went to a local ford dealer who said that an xr8 isnt suitable for them , it would be 2 fast for them and they dont need a big car like that , you'd be surprised if i named the dealer .
they simply went elswhere and picked out a new orange xr8 , got it lowered and upgraded the mags .

[XBROO]

I suppose it's another case of minority over majority. The test pilots spoil it for the fair dinkum ones. And both the car yards and the customers pay the price.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

LOOK MATE I'M HEARING YOU BUT I DONT AGREE .
i've turned up with previous FPV'S to trade in in my mid 30's with 2 young kids and a wife and been given the finger as far as driving , i dont have long hair tatts and flanellette shirts on when i walk in either . so the profile of me must be pretty bad . and if i had tatts long hair etc it shouldnt make a difference really .
the last test drive of an xr6 required 1 minute to fill out a damage excess form of $3000 in cass of an accident whilst driving , i signed without a problem , but even then i thought it was a little harsh seeing the sealer is in the business and should have insurance cover for demonstrators , and it was a 2nd hand na xr6 .
when a 40 year old well dressed man walks into a dealer with a tradein of a similar vehicle with a wife and two children and gets questioned or profiled about wealth and suitability to drive a car , i think the salesman should really be shovelling shyyte for a living and not selling cars . he would be costing the dealership a lot more than he is saving . and you can demolish a display home if you want to , even by accident , or fall down the stairs or whatever , they still let you in .Infact . the display homes often get worn carpet , used toilets and scratched floors , but i'm sure insurance covers things as such or the price is reduced on the display home , ohh wait , i think they do that with demonstrators too dont they . ???
of course theres tyre kickers out there . who cares . you shouldnt have to be a buyer to take a look and have a drive .

This is an apples and oranges argument. It started about bona fides being required to play with EXPENSIVE motor vehicles.

The most expensive FPV is about $90k NOT $490k NOR $990k.

Different levels have different rules and in the same way a barefoot bogan will find it difficult to get a test drive in a new HSV/FPV before playing with VERY expensive motor vehicles a bit of research is done.

The Aston dealer does not have one of each model sitting there for test drives. People who but demos expect at least 10% off because it is not new.
10% of a XR6 is $3-4k. 10% of a GT is $6-7k

10% of a Ferrari or Aston etc. could be as much as $50-80k. That is a lot of coin to gamble on a random blow in.

But it is really easy to prove my statement wrong.

Just go down to your local EXPENSIVE (not FPV) car dealer and grab a test drive in a new $400k++ vehicle. Take a pic of you driving it on your phone and post it on here.

I HAVE driven a few expensive cars over the years back when I was keen on buying something a nifty. Having bought quite a number of new FPVs etc before I was a bit surprised with what was required to get into a test drive at the next level up.
And this was just for Porsche Carrera S and BMW M3, not exactly expensive in the big picture.......

[XBROO]

Just tell them your with top gear and they'll throw you the keys.lol

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I suppose it's another case of minority over majority. The test pilots spoil it for the fair dinkum ones. And both the car yards and the customers pay the price.

Probably the most balanced post in this thread .

[wrongwaynorris]

" Just go down to your local EXPENSIVE (not FPV) car dealer and grab a test drive in a new $400k++ vehicle. Take a pic of you driving it on your phone and post it on here."

I seriously doubt we will be flooded with photos ? Will be interesting to see if someone cam scam their way into a test drive however .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Just tell them your with top gear and they'll throw you the keys.lol

And the address of their tyre supplier for the new rear tyres .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by flappist

This is an apples and oranges argument. It started about bona fides being required to play with EXPENSIVE motor vehicles.

The most expensive FPV is about $90k NOT $490k NOR $990k.

Different levels have different rules and in the same way a barefoot bogan will find it difficult to get a test drive in a new HSV/FPV before playing with VERY expensive motor vehicles a bit of research is done.

The Aston dealer does not have one of each model sitting there for test drives. People who but demos expect at least 10% off because it is not new.
10% of a XR6 is $3-4k. 10% of a GT is $6-7k

10% of a Ferrari or Aston etc. could be as much as $50-80k. That is a lot of coin to gamble on a random blow in.

But it is really easy to prove my statement wrong.

Just go down to your local EXPENSIVE (not FPV) car dealer and grab a test drive in a new $400k++ vehicle. Take a pic of you driving it on your phone and post it on here.

I HAVE driven a few expensive cars over the years back when I was keen on buying something a nifty. Having bought quite a number of new FPVs etc before I was a bit surprised with what was required to get into a test drive at the next level up.
And this was just for Porsche Carrera S and BMW M3, not exactly expensive in the big picture.......

i agree with what your saying . but im talking about average cars here . and i class an FPV as just that . its not out of reach of the average JOE BLOW . ONE shouldnt have to sit down as if he/she is applying for a job , one simply could be just potentiallky handing over some money to buy a car , it shouldnt be so hard with an average car . however if a bunch of dudes under the influence walk in and want to take one to see how she goes , could be questionable .
ferraris and porsches etc , we all know only about 2% of the population can get into one if they desire , and the percentage of that 2 percent that want one would be low . so its obvious only an interested buyer would be looking and expect to be screened as suitable financially .

a couple of things . my wife works for BMW so i literally could get into an expensive car for a test drive and play a trick posting photos , aside from that i could probably buy one if i wanted , to look at me you couldnt tell , yet im not rich by any standards just in my mid 40' S LOL .

[Uwish]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

" Just go down to your local EXPENSIVE (not FPV) car dealer and grab a test drive in a new $400k++ vehicle. Take a pic of you driving it on your phone and post it on here."

I seriously doubt we will be flooded with photos ? Will be interesting to see if someone cam scam their way into a test drive however .

I am pretty sure if I turned up in the LP640 I would get a drive of almost any car I wanted.
Especially as it is a known car to most dealers in Sydney that like to sell 500k plus cars.

But if I turned up in a corolla I'd be told to eat *****!!! Fair enough really

[flappist]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i agree with what your saying . but im talking about average cars here . and i class an FPV as just that . its not out of reach of the average JOE BLOW . ONE shouldnt have to sit down as if he/she is applying for a job , one simply could be just potentiallky handing over some money to buy a car , it shouldnt be so hard with an average car . however if a bunch of dudes under the influence walk in and want to take one to see how she goes , could be questionable .
ferraris and porsches etc , we all know only about 2% of the population can get into one if they desire , and the percentage of that 2 percent that want one would be low . so its obvious only an interested buyer would be looking and expect to be screened as suitable financially .

a couple of things . my wife works for BMW so i literally could get into an expensive car for a test drive and play a trick posting photos , aside from that i could probably buy one if i wanted , to look at me you couldnt tell , yet im not rich by any standards just in my mid 40' S LOL .

Well using the inside line is cheating and apart from that, the BMW for you to buy is a M6 or 750i not a 116i. Still not a problem?

Remember the whole "deposit" thing was about high end vehicles not ordinary ones but the stream has been hijacked.

In the same way that my comment about the video has been misundestood by some.
You can just throw your weight around and force the best price on the phone provided:

1) you have no trade.
2) you know exactly what the car is and what are its specs.
3) you have the money already and do not need to apply for finance.
4) you are prepared to take what they have there on the spot.

As the majority of new cars sold to private people involve a trade and finance and most have no idea what goodies are on offer it really does not apply here in Australia.

The agro attitude can also blow up in your face. I was told by a friend who is a DP of a deal where there buyer was doing all the nasties like last day of month old plate and throw in farkles etc. and screw the price down to basically just under cost.
THE VERY NEXT DAY there was a promotion with heaps of extras, reduced price and cash back.

Agro came back to complain that he could have got it $thousands cheaper.
Unfortunately DP could do nothing about it, his hands were tied.

Karma, well in this case maybe CARma......

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by uwish

i am pretty sure if i turned up in the lp640 i would get a drive of almost any car i wanted.
Especially as it is a known car to most dealers in sydney that like to sell 500k plus cars.

But if i turned up in a corolla i'd be told to eat *****!!! Fair enough really

no !!! Not really .