air conditioner gas to go up 220% june 30th ?

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

There is one prime example as to why it's just a scam...they've just released the list of the "big evil polluters", the companies destroying the environment and polluting the air and pumping out CO2...

...and hidden in amongst the list to be taxed with the carbon tax is...wait for it...the Snowy Mountain Hydroelectric Scheme...

WTF?....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Those complaining how the polluting companies will pass on the carbon tax costs to the consumer are missing the point of the tax. Its there to harness the market in order to change behaviour - an artificial way to encourage people to buy greener products when in the past they wouldn't have bothered, or even thought about it. If the polluting companies were to absorb the costs and continue as before, then absolutely nothing would change and nothing achieved.

And with the this 300% increase on refrigerant, as Jim Goose is saying, why not question the companies ethics before just blaming the carbon tax? It happens time and time again - government policy intended to help the community taken advantage of by greedy a##h###s looking to take advantage and make a buck - but they're ok, just blame the government instead!

The problem is the government has introduced this dodgy scheme which basically allows companies to rip us all off. So it is their fault, they should know what is going to happen.

They keep saying everyone will be better off, everyone except self funded retirees and all the others they fail to mention who won't get any compensation by the way.

And they base their assumption that everyone will be compensated more than what they will pay due to the carbon tax based on their assumption that all companies will do the right thing. When you factor in how many companies will push their prices up around July 1, yet not directly blame the carbon tax just sort of make it out like it was, or push price increases higher than what they need too to profiteer, which they could get away with, and the so called compansation will more than likely not even cover the increases we all will have to pay due to companies ripping us all off because the government has given them a way to do it.

So its directly the governments fault.

And the worse thing about it is a lot of the money collected will be sent overseas to help other countries reduce pollution. And it won't be policed in any way either, so its open slather to abuse.

But its all ok because this will save the world.

[Jim Goose]

Here is the full list of companies.... if someone can find the companies which make Refrigerant gas... let me know!

As for the Snowy Mountain Hydro Scheme.... what other assets do they own?
Find that one truely bizzare to say the least and yes its there in the list.

http://www.cleanenergyregulator.gov.au/Carbon-Pricing-Mechanism/Liable-Entities-Public-Information-Database/LEPID-for-2012-13-Financial-year/Pages/Default.aspx?&&View={AE571E0D-C1E4-43F5-9700-BA4DA2260E7D**&InitialTabId=Ribbon.ListItem&Visibi lityContext=WSSTabPersistence

[mik]

pretty annoying really, my aircon appears to have done a seal, still working but only just, looks like i will be getting the royal aircon shaftage soon lol

[joolz]

So now its a real luxury to have air conditioning in Australia. Only the rich will be able to afford it!!

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Refrigerant gas will not be taxed at $23/T for the carbon content, but by its equivalant to CO2 pollution, which has the multiplier effect.
Pollutes X times more than CO2, so X times the tax rate.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Jim Goose
read my self quote

[KIWI-1]

See http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...tators&src=msp for a list.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

As for the Snowy Mountain Hydro Scheme.... what other assets do they own?
Find that one truely bizzare to say the least and yes its there in the list.

A couple of Gas fired power stations in Vic and one coming up in NSW

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

A couple of Gas fired power stations in Vic and one coming up in NSW

That will explain it then??

Though i dunno how clean is gas??

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

As for the Snowy Mountain Hydro Scheme.... what other assets do they own?
Find that one truely bizzare to say the least and yes its there in the list.

Red Energy is their retail business
Snowy Hydro shareholders are NSW Govt 58%, Vic Govt 29%, Federal Govt 13%.

[Jim Goose]

Dear oh dear... another one caught out telling fibs to the public...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-0...-costs/4118200

Cemeteries warned against carbon tax 'rip offs'

Updated July 09, 2012 11:22:12
Related Story: Nationals hoping carbon tax backlash will unseat Fitzgibbon
Related Story: Bradbury backs Brumby's on removing Liberal placards
Map: Australia

The Federal Government has expressed concern that the carbon tax is being used as an excuse to raise the cost of funerals.

A Melbourne cemetery is alleged to have told a grieving family that a $55 charge for burial was due to the carbon tax - a move labelled "reprehensible" by Climate Change Minister Greg Combet.

Mr Combet says cemeteries or crematoriums are not liable under the carbon price mechanism.

"It would be reprehensible to take advantage of grieving relatives by making misleading claims about funeral expenses," he said in a statement on Monday.

A grieving family at Springvale Cemetery was allegedly told by a receptionist: "even the dead don't escape the carbon tax".

The Assistant Treasurer, David Bradbury, says the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is looking into the report and warned businesses that any claims they make have to be truthful.

"Without commenting specifically on the details of this case, I think most Australians would say that if a particular company is seeking to rip off consumers and to take advantage of people at a time when they are grieving the loss of their loved ones then that would be a despicable act," Mr Bradbury said.

"Businesses need to be very careful that if they are increasing their prices and they're making claims about the carbon price that they ensure that those claims are truthful.

"If businesses are caught out jacking up their prices and falsely blaming those prices rises on the carbon price they stand to find themselves on the wrong side of the law."

However John Tribe, chief executive of the Southern Metropolitan Cemeteries Trust which administers Springvale Cemetery, denied there was a carbon tax charge in place.

"If it did (happen), it's nothing that the family need worry about," Mr Tribe told 3AW radio in Melbourne.

"I can never absolutely say that it was not said, but what I can tell you is it has never been discussed by me, the management committee or the sales staff and therefore if it was said it's a complete figment of somebody's imagination."

Mr Tribe said that while burials will not be affected by the carbon tax, the Southern Metropolitan Cemeteries Trust will assess the need to increase cremation costs after the tax's introduction.

"In the event that there is enough impact on our cost price, then we'll make a submission to government," he said.

"But I wouldn't think that's going to happen for six or nine months at least."

Warwick Hanson from the Australian Funeral Directors Association says the tax will have minimal impact on the industry, if any.

"Our association, which is a national association, has not been advised by any cemetery or crematorium at this point in time of any increase in price that is being directly attributed back to the carbon tax," he said.

Of course companies will do the right thing by consumer wont they?

The problem is that the general public has no clue how it works and actually believes its a "tax" on every single industry around the country,
when in fact its a permit to pollute and only the top 300 or so polluters in country have to get a permit.

Irrespective of wether or not its a "good thing", the government has been quite stupid in not explaining to people how it works.

If a small company tells you that the price has gone up because of "carbon pricing" for gods sake question it!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Of course companies will do the right thing by consumer wont they?

You're dead right about that

[Bossxr8]

The government is so nieve to think this isn't going to be massively widespread. And we probably won't even be hearing about the other 95% of companies who will get away with raising prices, because everyone will assume prices will increase across the board even though they might not even be paying any carbon tax.

Everyone will have to pay higher electricity costs, so in theory every business could put their prices up and blame the carbon tax.

Just gives business a way to price gouge.

[Yellow_Festiva]

A little birdy told me that power costs for the whole 'Woolies group' just went up between 72-76 million with this new tax...

Owch......

[GhiaEB]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

A little birdy told me that power costs for the whole 'Woolies group' just went up between 72-76 million with this new tax...

Owch......

You can't tell me that's not going to drive prices up at the supermarket? That plus the added transport costs, refrigeration the list goes on. Worse than the GST, this one is.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by GhiaEB

You can't tell me that's not going to drive prices up at the supermarket? That plus the added transport costs, refrigeration the list goes on. Worse than the GST, this one is.

Sigh... please read whats been said.....

There is no CARBON TAX... its a PERMIT to pollute paid by the top 300 polluters in the country. THERE IS NOT TAX.

NO TRANSPORT companies are paying it (yet).

The refrigeration industry CANT explain the price rise... because they are price gouging. Again its a PERMIT TO POLLUTE.
Just how many refrigeration gas manufacturers are there pumping hundreds of millions of tons of pollution in order to justify a 300% increase?

People really need to find out for themselves how it works and just who is paying the carbon price per ton of pollution.

[39ClevoUte]

So it starts, sorry if this has already been up...

http://mumbrella.com.au/brumbys-laun...bon-tax-101992


Brumby’s launches ad campaign to say sorry for lying about the carbon tax

Bakery chain Brumby’s has launched an ad campaign apologising for an attempt to put up prices and blame it on the carbon tax – and asking customers not to take it out on the staff.

According to the ad, the suggestion was “an unfortunate mistake” by head office.

It has been reported that Brumby’s MD Deane Priest resigned late last week.

Parent company Retail Food Group said in an update to the ASX that the company had decided to put up its recommended retail prices and had made comments in an internal newsletter suggesting that it be blamed on the carbon tax as “innocent albeit foolish and ill-considered remarks”.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by joolz

So now its a real luxury to have air conditioning in Australia. Only the rich will be able to afford it!!

I believe that's the point of wealth redistribution...

[Windsor]

Gents.
I work for a large Refrigeration company and am involved with purchasing etc. The price i PAY for R134a refrigerant has increased by more than 300% - ( and we get very good prices / deals due to the amount we buy) - directly due to the carbon tax, we mark it up obviously but our large customers actually negotiate fixed mark ups with us so we wont be price gouging (never have). And in a referb. or a new Shop a system can hold hundreds of KG's. All the extra costs to our customers will be seen on the grocery bill.
Cheers Steve B.

[mash again]

Call it want you want Jim if it = more dollars from my pocket to the government then its a TAX. if you have a Goose and call it a rabbit its still a Goose by another name!

[frankie86]

we supply air con gas at my work, a whole heap of workshops ordered like crazy before the carbon tax came in, before carbon tax a 22 kilo cylinder was $675 after the tax $1500, talk about inflation aye

[BHDOGS]

It's not a tax Jim is right thats what abbot calls it because he's a ******** it doesn't go to ato you can't just claim every dollar the government gets in anyway shape of form is a tax

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

It's not a tax Jim is right thats what abbot calls it because he's a ******** it doesn't go to ato you can't just claim every dollar the government gets in anyway shape of form is a tax

cigaratte, fuel and alcohol excise doesn't go to the ato either, but in reality they are a tax
call it what you want, but it is a tax. the government was just too sneaky to call it that in the first place


i guess the alcohol excise is just a permit to get drunk and the excise on fuel and cigarettes is just a permit to pollute too is it

[pottery beige]

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Windsor

Gents.
I work for a large Refrigeration company and am involved with purchasing etc. The price i PAY for R134a refrigerant has increased by more than 300% - ( and we get very good prices / deals due to the amount we buy) - directly due to the carbon tax, we mark it up obviously but our large customers actually negotiate fixed mark ups with us so we wont be price gouging (never have). And in a referb. or a new Shop a system can hold hundreds of KG's. All the extra costs to our customers will be seen on the grocery bill.
Cheers Steve B.

Wrong... the industry CANT EXPLAIN why the price has gone up...

Seriously people just lap it up and believe what they are fed.

Is the refrigerant industry Australias BIGGEST polluter then?

Power has not gone up 300% yet coal fired stations pump out millions of tons of pollution... so explain how refrigerant companies pollute MORE ?

Are any of the refrigerant companies listed in the 300 top polluters?

cigaratte, fuel and alcohol excise doesn't go to the ato either, but in reality they are a tax
call it what you want, but it is a tax. the government was just too sneaky to call it that in the first place

Its not a TAX.... for gods sake... how hard is it?
Its a PERMIT TO POLLUTE which is paid by Australias biggest pollutors... of which there is 248 companies listed who actually pay for it.

If the company is NOT on the list... they dont pay it.

Sadly trying to debate/ discuss/ argue something on here is truely pointless when people dont understand how it works, dont want to listen, dont want to read whats being said.



Nevermind the fact that Brumbys was caught out.... and now a funeral parlour has been caught out lieing to people.

Lets just pretend that didnt happen.... and whinge about how the government has screwed us all... when infact blind freddy can see that the companies involved are the ones ripping us off.

And again.. for the record I dont support it.

[Charliewool]

From the above examples (Brumbies bakery, Springvale cemetary, etc) It's pretty obvious that GovCo is pulling out all stops to make uttering the words "CARBON TAX" a big No No..
Businesses putting prices up, no worries... Blame the high dollar, blame rising wages, blame unions.. blame ANYTHING, but DON'T mention (shhhh!) The Carbon Tax!
A Classic example.. Alcoa Point Henry, (who, I believe use 15-20% of Victorias total annual electricity) have been barking for months about shutting shop.
In step GovCo to the rescue.
Here's the deal Mr. Alcoa.. We, your saviour, will bail you out for a couple of years with 40mill - 60mill, whatever it takes.. BUT do NOT mention (Shhhhh) THE Carbon Tax
Blab all you want about a world glut of Aluminium, or our ridiculously high dollar, or your old plant needing upgrading, BUT ONE mention of those 2 now banned words, and no payola for you!.. Now off you go for a year or 2 until this things firmly entrenched into the impoverished masses , THEN you can shut shop & move to China!

[pottery beige]

twist it any way you want..

A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.[1] Unlike hallucinations, delusions are always pathological (the result of an illness or illness process).[1] As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.


its a tax..

[Charliewool]

Also, Re: Alcoa... IF GovCo DID let them go down the gurgler, wouldn't that achieve in one foul swoop what the States desired/required total emmision target is?
Surely closing down THE states largest single electricity user (pollutor) would be a positive thing for the enviornment?
Not too savory for votes though eh?.. Much better to punish the bloody lot of us!

[mugo]

I'm also a refrigeration mechanic and our coat prise of refrigerants has more than doubled since the start of the month. I found a bit of info on the Herold Sun website explaining the increase in price of refrigerant that i will quote below.


There has been nothing mentioned in the media about the “Carbon Tax’s” effect on refrigerant, so I feel compelled to inform you as a refrigeration wholesaler, that the impact of this useless tax will be massive.

In a nutshell, the price of refrigerant, which keeps all of Australia’s food fresh, will rise a minimum of 300% at the wholesale level. This is based on each refrigerants GWP (Global Warming Potential) multiplied by the carbon tax per tonne. eg. R404a has a GWP of 3862, which multiplied by $23/tonne equals $88/kg TAX.

Consider this…

The average supermarket has approximately 250kg of R404a in it to run all its fridges and freezers. So, after July 1 2012, the tax alone on the main supermarket gas, R404a, will equate to around $22000.00 for just 250kg, not including the cost of the gas itself, if they have a breakdown and lose their gas. Refrigerant leaks are a common problem in the trade.

Every new installation or breakdown will be affected. These costs will have to be passed on, or many businesses will simply have to close. The impact will be huge!

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm pretty ****ed off we procrastinated about getting a split system installed, I guess price is going to go through the roof now for instalation.