another 440 jobs to go at Ford - Page 6

johnydep · 18-07-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

And you justw ent off the deep end without truly understanding what was said,
read again and you will see the opposite meaning to what you just said:

Every thread turns into a Falcon death spiral whinge fest but very few acknowledge Territory's recent increases..

I didn't pick out your post or any individual post, otherwise I would have quoted it, as you have mine.

My view is from many that seem to blame the car buying public for Ford's woes. Go back over the thread and you'll find them.

So who went over the deep end?

Bossxr8 · 18-07-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

just a thought regarding the new Australian auto sales record, do you think a lot of that could be?
A. because it`s end of financial year and some(mostly companies) are buying for tax purposes.

B. a rush to buy up also due to the implementation of the Carbon Tax, again mostly companies.

not being sarcastic, genuine questions.

June is always the biggest month of the year, its no different this year to any previous years. Companies always try to get in before the EOFY, nothing new here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Struggo

Here is part of the problem,

Only 35 per cent of the federal government's 14,115 fleet vehicles are Australian-made. Just 12 per cent of the 112,000 new cars sold between January and June were built in Australia.

http://m.smh.com.au/national/fords-g...717-228j5.html

It was 66% a few years ago, but its good to see the Union is now starting to bleat about how the government doesn't buy as many as they used too and questioning why they aren't supporting australian made vehicles.

Chilliman · 18-07-2012, 06:11 PM

I seem to recall that there was a time when Falcon looked like it was a gonner. Its reputation and image had been trashed and it seemed like nothing could save it. Then a funny thing happened - a national TV event to change peoples perceptions of the Falcon with an eight-day durability trial; and you know what; it worked! The year was 1965.

What's needed to save Falcon is a similar (obviously not the same thing) event to change the publics' perceptions of the Falcon - I'm thinking something to do with fuel economy and show-casing the EcoBoost.

Anyway its a moot point if the plan all along was to axe the Falcon and discontinue manufacturing in Australia - in that case they're right on track!

jpd80 · 18-07-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

My view is from many that seem to blame the car buying public for Ford's woes. Go back over the thread and you'll find them.

Right......
We've just had pages and pages of people opening up on FoA and its failures,
You could count on one hand or one finger the posts on here "blaming " buyers...

See, there's a difference between acknowledging that the market wants something other than large sedans
and "blaming" buyers for Falcon's woes.

Joe5619 · 18-07-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I seem to recall that there was a time when Falcon looked like it was a gonner. Its reputation and image had been trashed and it seemed like nothing could save it. Then a funny thing happened - a national TV event to change peoples perceptions of the Falcon with an eight-day durability trial; and you know what; it worked! The year was 1965.

I hope someone that is working a Ford Australia is smart enough to come up with something like this!! I really thought they'd do something big with EB4 intro. They had (still do) a big chance to reinvent the Falcon brand with EB4.

ALLOT of the reasons people don’t by Falcons are based on old or wrong facts. Get on the front foot and change poeples minds.

I still hold out that we'll still have a RWD Falcon post 2016. I won’t believe otherwise until Ford tells me otherwise.

turboxf · 18-07-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WPR1

Sack the advertising department - they are useless!!!

Ford have the best range of cars they have ever had they need to tell people about it. Look at the great Jeep ads and their sales have increased 137%!!!!!!

Come on Ford advertising!

Don't blame them all the time, it is the FORD owner not telling the friends ( other makes of cars ) how GREAT my FORD is , do you wan't a test drive, lets go to the nearest FORD dealer & have a ball testing all the FORD range of big sized vehicles.
Word of mouth & testing vehicles is better than spending money on ADS ???????.

At least our economy isn't in the shitter like most euro countries are now!!!!!!!!!

Shonky. · 18-07-2012, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I do believe Ford have a marketing department, i also believe they are doing exactly as they have been told to do (from elsewhere) and have been doing so for a number of years now.....

Also....in the future i believe they will be thanked (again from elsewhere) for their help in achieving what they were asked to do.....

Just my observation that’s worth nothing to no one but me.....

I hope you are wrong

You may not be, but I hope you are

Franco Cozzo · 18-07-2012, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

yeah, because everyone thats got $40k+ burning a hole in their pocket don't do any of their own research but just walk into the showroom and buy a car they saw on tv

give it a rest.

Given I've walked into a Ford dealership and bought two of my new cars without even test driving them or the competition, we do exist lol.

If I did my research I would have gone for the Mazda 3 MZR-CD instead of the TDCI Focus because of the bigger engine and standard HIDs.

KIWI-1 · 18-07-2012, 07:32 PM

Come on folks, it's always been know as "The Falcon Car Company" in the trade. Sadly, the masses don't want a "Big Aussie Six" anymore. The small minority who do want a "Big Aussie Six", want a "Big Aussie Six" not 4-cylinder mutton dressed up as lamb.

Holden woke up to this years ago when they dropped sixes and V-8s into the Opel Rekord, and recently when they started assembling the Daewoo Lacetti at Elizabeth.

We can only hope that The Falcon Car Company wake up in time.

turboxf · 18-07-2012, 07:36 PM

When i went to the last MELBOURNE motor show the FALCON LPi was one of the best viewed cars there on the FORD stand

Plus the dislays of how the ECOboost engines worked with those running cut out display of them was fantastic to watch, plenty of people were videoing them

That expo got free TV exposure on all commercial & non commercial stations more than spending money on ADS, plus plenty of internet scribes there telling how good the ECB4 will be in the FALCON

There is too many negative scribes, ( pro holden ) trying to put the fantastic FALCON down, but when the same scribes had to drive the new EB4 they had to tell the truth??????? that the eb4 is a WINNER

Shonky. · 18-07-2012, 07:44 PM

Perception is reality in sales, advertising and marketing.

Just like Macroeconomics. Nothing gets the economy moving like consumers believing that it is already coming into a growth cycle. Whether it actually is or not is far less important than the perception. This perception is what gets consumers spending and Businesses investing again.

Same goes for Falcon/Ford. It is such a snowball effect. The more people say Falcon/Ford is dying the more people believe it. The more people believe it the less people buy it. People want to pick winners, not buy the last of a dying product. Some of the biggest contributions to this downward spiral are the very people who call themselves fans.

I said it earlier and will say it again. News Limited can bang this ^ right up their ***

It just adds to an ever growing perception. Falcon is such a good car and it is slipping through our fingers

What is so wrong with a bit of optimism?

Members like jpd80 try and take glass half full approach and just get shut down.

This forum is the 3rd most visited Automotive forum on the planet

2.6 million people visited in June

People read it. Don't think you 5h1tting on Ford makes no difference. It does.

So how bout the negative posters go an sign up to

http://www.catchat.org/forum.html

or Whirlpool or wherever and allow those of us who love the brand to try and get behind it

Brazen · 18-07-2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Given I've walked into a Ford dealership and bought two of my new cars without even test driving them or the competition, we do exist lol.

If I did my research I would have gone for the Mazda 3 MZR-CD instead of the TDCI Focus because of the bigger engine and standard HIDs.

Me too, I didnt test drive my last three brand new cars or any competition. My dad is the same too, he told me he bought an EL and then a AU simply when he saw the ads for the new model and so went to the dealer the next day.

KIWI-1 · 18-07-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If I did my research I would have gone for the Mazda 3 MZR-CD instead of the TDCI Focus because of the bigger engine and standard HIDs.

HQ has one - great car, both with engines from the Ford/PSA alliance. You might have the smaller engine, but in Ford tune it's got more kW, less Nm, less L/100km.

Kinda ironical that while the biggest car in Australia is dying a slow painful death http://www.carsguide.com.au/blogs-an...n_death_notice; the biggest selling car in Australia is sort of a Ford.

kevino · 18-07-2012, 08:01 PM

Sorry KoneWone, but what are you saying.
HQ has one-what does this mean?

I have an 08 TDCI and because of the lack of manual box in new focus the 6 speed manual Mazda 3 MZD is of interest as a replacement later.
How does teh torque curve compare.

Fiesta_Man69 · 18-07-2012, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

Perception is reality in sales, advertising and marketing.

Just like Macroeconomics. Nothing gets the economy moving like consumers believing that it is already coming into a growth cycle. Whether it actually is or not is far less important than the perception. This perception is what gets consumers spending and Businesses investing again.

Same goes for Falcon/Ford. It is such a snowball effect. The more people say Falcon/Ford is dying the more people believe it. The more people believe it the less people buy it. People want to pick winners, not buy the last of a dying product. Some of the biggest contributions to this downward spiral are the very people who call themselves fans.

image

I said it earlier and will say it again. News Limited can bang this ^ right up their ***

It just adds to an ever growing perception. Falcon is such a good car and it is slipping through our fingers

What is so wrong with a bit of optimism?

Members like jpd80 try and take glass half full approach and just get shut down.

This forum is the 3rd most visited Automotive forum on the planet

2.6 million people visited in June

People read it. Don't think you 5h1tting on Ford makes no difference. It does.

So how bout the negative posters go an sign up to

http://www.catchat.org/forum.html

or Whirlpool or wherever and allow those of us who love the brand to try and get behind it

That front page "End Looms for Falcon" is the biggest Falcon anti-ad for the company in such a high selling paper. Anyone who might have been considering buying the Falcon and who saw that paper will now have second thoughts.

No one on here denies the Falcon is an excellent car. The Ecoboost is a fantastic engine. It's just a pity Ford's marketing department is stuck back in 1982 and only fans of the car on this forum know of the EB, LpI and how good the car is.

Channel 9 today had financial 'experts' predicting the US Taurus could be with us by 2014.....

Great PR for Ford Aus and its poor frontline workers. Not.

The 440 that need to go are from management, advertising and customer relations. That would be a start to rebuilding the once dominant Ford Aus brand...

zilo · 18-07-2012, 09:19 PM

My first post...joined up cause am looking at new cars...

With only a 100 odd Falcons being made a day it will mean an absolutely, perfectly screwed together Falcon by people on the line that have plenty of time to check and double check every nook and cranny of the product.
In fact the pressure should be off deadline wise, for everyone.

Those that buy a Falcon in the future should see a huge improvement in product quality. I remember seeing TV articles of workers on the Mitsubishi 380 line saying they had plenty of time between cars on the line to do things as sweetly as they want to.
They knew their time was probably up, so they used it to make something that would stand out as a testament to their workmanship.

Food for thought for anyone wanting a new Falcon?

Joe5619 · 18-07-2012, 09:20 PM

Another thing Ford is not doing or should I say the CEO is not doing, is talking to the big time media out lets (i.e. Channel 7 & 9 news) & getting the right message out there. These so called experts saying Taurus could be here by 2014 are so dumb & wrong it should be illegal. The CEO could have been interviewed & could have put a much better positive spin on it. I just wish Ford were more proactive about these matters. It costs Ford nothing to get the CEO in front of a camera & talk Ford, Falcon & local manufacturing up. There are some positives in all this, YTD local sales for Ford are actually up this year compared to 2011, better sales mix with higher territory sales, future updates & investment still to come. There are positive stories to tell, but it is up to Ford to get them out there!! Drown out the negative ones with positive one.. Come on Ford!!

KIWI-1 · 18-07-2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Channel 9 today had financial 'experts' predicting the US Taurus could be with us by 2014.....

The 3.5L EcoBoost V-6 AWD 6-speed SHO could work here but will we get it in Australia? or athe 2L FWD base model?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

The 440 that need to go are from management, advertising and customer relations. That would be a start to rebuilding the once dominant Ford Aus brand...

+1 from me

TC200six · 18-07-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

My first post...joined up cause am looking at new cars...

With only a 100 odd Falcons being made a day it will mean an absolutely, perfectly screwed together Falcon by people on the line that have plenty of time to check and double check every nook and cranny of the product.
In fact the pressure should be off deadline wise, for everyone.

Those that buy a Falcon in the future should see a huge improvement in product quality. I remember seeing TV articles of workers on the Mitsubishi 380 line saying they had plenty of time between cars on the line to do things as sweetly as they want to.
They knew their time was probably up, so they used it to make something that would stand out as a testament to their workmanship.

Food for thought for anyone wanting a new Falcon?

Welcome to the forum.

I do agree with you about the lower numbers being produced mean more time to focus on quality. The biggest challenge to Ford is to survive through the constant negative press leading the public to think the Falcon and Ford Aus are dead already. Right now I feel like the Falcon is at the same stage the 380 was in 2007 which is really sad.

**Polyal** · 18-07-2012, 09:31 PM

Lower production number will make no difference to "quality"...not that there really is an issue with it. That all down to design and materials used...oh and how much $$ is thrown behind it to begin with. The processes stay the same, we are not talking about Rolls Royce's here even though FPV would like you to think thats the case.

falconnut · 18-07-2012, 09:32 PM

How can we make this downward spiral turn around? I am sick of the negative press spin on the falcon and ford in general!

yeah i miss the 380 too, i was going to get one but ended up with the falcon.

What a shame Australian car manufacturing (hell all big industry) is moving off shore.

God forbid if anything big happens to Asia we wont have anything.

Nikked · 18-07-2012, 09:32 PM

People still think that Add's (other then the Terri ads, FPV ads, all the EcoBoost ad's popping up on various web pages and social networrking sites) will really stop the slide?

Holden advertise the septice human waste out of the commodore, and it is bopping down the slide just like the falcon.

Perhaps Ford don't want to waste money on more TV advertesments when the publics perception on large cars has all but been made?

/facepalm

KIWI-1 · 18-07-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Another thing Ford is not doing or should I say the CEO is not doing, is talking to the big time media out lets (i.e. Channel 7 & 9 news) & getting the right message out there.

Come to think of it the CEO, and spin queen are both silent.
Probably because the "right" message is
"We are stopping production of the Falcon and importing the Taurus".
The best thing they could do would be to SAY IT and the world might move on.

falconnut · 18-07-2012, 09:39 PM

When exactly did big fuel efficient and fun cars like the falcon fall out of favor?

I guess when people say the same is happening to the Commodore its not really the same because GM dont want to kill it as quickly as FoA does.

It just really makes me sad that there is nothing we can do about all this ******** negative press.

Brazen · 18-07-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

People still think that Add's (other then the Terri ads, FPV ads, all the EcoBoost ad's popping up on various web pages and social networrking sites) will really stop the slide?

Holden advertise the septice human waste out of the commodore, and it is bopping down the slide just like the falcon.

/facepalm

Commodore is 6 years old, and the VE is the longest running Holden in the company's history - with a new model just around the corner, this was always going to be a bad year for Commodore and yet it is selling double the amount of the recently facelifted Falcon with has an optional brand new EcoBoost engine.

jpd80 · 18-07-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

People still think that Add's (other then the Terri ads, FPV ads, all the EcoBoost ad's popping up on various web pages and social networrking sites) will really stop the slide?

Holden advertise the septice human waste out of the commodore, and it is bopping down the slide just like the falcon.

Perhaps Ford don't want to waste money on more TV advertesments when the publics perception on large cars has all but been made?

/facepalm

There's a difference with commodore, a lot of buyers who are on their second VE are now
deliberately staying out of the market place waiting for the VF to arrive.

That Holden is still getting better than 2500 sales a month with a evolutioned 2006 vehicle
is truly amazing.

Six years is about the maximum you will get out of a product cycle in Australia,
is it a coincidence that E8 started in mid 2008 will be six years old in 2014?
Is the update in 2014 bigger than what Ford is letting on.....

Jim Goose · 18-07-2012, 09:54 PM

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-1...tralia/4139250

Car industry observers say Ford's days of making cars in Australia will be numbered once the next version of the Falcon rolls off the production line.

Yesterday, Ford announced it would cut up to 440 jobs at two of its plants in Melbourne and cut production of its cars to meet falling demand.

The Ford Falcon and the Holden Commodore were among Australia's most popular cars 15 years ago.

But Australian Automobile Association executive director Andrew McKellar says those kinds of large cars are now out of fashion.

"Four-wheel drives, SUVs: they're now 27 to 28 per cent of the market. At the same time, large cars are down to only about 5 per cent of the market," he said.

"So the old model, where the local manufacturing industry focused on the larger car segment, that's no longer viable."

But while Holden has taken steps to future-proof its local operations by starting production of a smaller car, Ford ditched plans to make a smaller car in Australia several years ago.

Richard Johns, who was involved in the rationalisation of the car industry in the 1980s and now runs the consultancy Australian Automotive Intelligence, says it is not easy for car makers to switch to production of smaller cars.

"A lot of people think that'd be easy for car makers just to change over, say, stop producing the Falcon and produce the Focus, but it's not that simple, because there's an investment of - in the full car line - of somewhere between a half a billion and a billion dollars, in starting a new car," he said.

He says more often than not, the cars Australians are buying are made overseas.

"SUVs, with the exception of the Ford Territory, which is made here, and the smaller cars have typically been imported, particularly from Japan and Korea, although European brands such as Volkswagen are making strong comebacks in the Australian market," he said.
No longer supportive?

Motoring expert Ged Bulmer says some quarters believe the only thing keeping Ford operations alive in Australia is government support.

He says rumours have been swirling for years that Ford's head office in Detroit is no longer supportive of manufacturing in Australia.

"There have been opportunities for Detroit to, if you like, throw Ford Australia a lifeline, by for instance allowing it to integrate the successful Territory into its global sales mix, or by allowing it even to sell Falcons into other markets," he said.

"That opportunity's not been offered, so I think it is fair to say that Detroit hasn't been as supportive of Ford Australia as it could have been, or should have been."

But Mr Johns says it is unlikely head office let its assets in Australia continue on with the status quo, knowing that they would receive government support.

"I think that is far too cynical, because the levels of assistance in Australia today are very low for the automotive industry," he said.

"Tariffs have reduced from 57.5 per cent, plus other factors which stop the inflow of cars to where many imported cars are coming into Australia on zero tariffs today and the maximum tariff is 5 per cent."

As well as the Falcon, Ford also produces the Territory four-wheel drive in Australia.

It sells well, but Mr Bulmer doubts Ford could continue to keep its operations open by just producing the Territory alone.

"They're already winding their production back quite significantly with this most recent announcement of job cuts," he said.

"So if you take Falcon out of that mix, the line rate for the day would be getting perilously close to being unsustainable."

Mr Bulmer says it is possible Ford is leaving itself open to stopping production in Australia.

"There has been ongoing speculation for a number of years that this latest Falcon will be the last Falcon produced here in Australia and Ford has only committed to an update on that vehicle," he said.

"Beyond that they haven't committed to a new model, which Holden has done.

"So I think if you read between the lines, it does look like they're certainly leaving themselves room to, at sometime in the future, stop local production."

Mr Johns says Ford's prospects in Australia are not good.

"In the longer term, unless they can have a vehicle which sells much more strongly than the Falcon's been selling in recent times, then I think it would be very hard to justify continuing production," he said.

Ford Australia did not respond to PM's request for comment.

First posted July 18, 2012 19:53:05

BroadyFord · 18-07-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Come to think of it the CEO, and spin queen are both silent.
Probably because the "right" message is
"We are stopping production of the Falcon and importing the Taurus".
The best thing they could do would be to SAY IT and the world might move on.

If Ford deliberately want to kill off Falcon (and local manufacturing in general) then I fail to see how they could continue to 2014 let alone 2016.

Right now Ford are achieving 1000 Falcon sales a month with zero advertising, so if this continues then what? Maybe 500 per month by 2014 at best?

The best strategy IMO would be to dump the 2014 update (and Falcon altogether), start producing a global model at Broadmeadows and engage in an export program.

Yes Falcon would go (as it would regardless) but at least we keep manufacturing in Australia which is more important than retaining a nameplate.

Franco Cozzo · 18-07-2012, 09:59 PM

Government should be buying Australian made cars, none of this green car policy crap.

Government is supposed to serve its people, it should be helping more than just giving cash handouts, maybe they should have been more creative with "giving" manufacturers money, example:

Government fleets have to be Australian made cars.

Create incentives for average joe to buy Falcon/Commodore/Aurion, maybe GST or LCT exemption on Australian made cars, cheaper rego?

Brazen · 18-07-2012, 10:04 PM

Whatever happens, the worst thing to happen to Ford Australia and manufacturing in this country was the cancellation of the C1 production in this country. I still remember when Bureala announced it cancelled. It was a very sad day.

I think from now on, Ford Australia has to assume the worst, they should be assuming that Falcon and large cars wont recover and therefore be bidding with government co-investment on a new line at Broadmeadows to make a global car alongside the current Falcon - this should be their imperative.