Temp gauge moving

[99auforte]

So, I'm not sure if I am expecting too much of my Falcon or if I have an impending issue.

The past week or so I have noticed the temp rising in my Falcon. The AU Forte has C then a NORMAL section and then there is H

The car has always sat in between th N and O on the gauge, however this has gone up to A last week under full throttle with aircon on Recycle and up a hill. The temps in Adelaide have been high 30s since the first occurence of this.

Temp returns to normal when at top of hill.

Replaced thermostat yesterday and tested on some hills - no sign of issue.

Asked wife today how it was going...she said 1st hill - no problem - which is the biggest of the trip......but second hill - it moved between the R and M and then returned to it's normal position at the top - which is between the N and O.

Temp in Adelaide again was high 30s.

Am I being overly cautious and this is normal for red hot days up hills full throttle with air-con on?

The recent changes to the car since this occurred is Gas system added - and this is whilst using gas (have not tested on petrol). I heard somewhere Gas can cause engine to run hotter???

Car had new heavy duty radiator and full flush in December 2006.

[dom_105]

I think Adelaide's your problem. All those days over 35 can't be healthy.

[opto]

Anything between N and L is NORMAL.

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by opto

Anything between N and L is NORMAL.

Okay so I shouldn't worry then?

[sooty43]

The AU ford temp. gauges are notoriusly faulty. Get an old fashion dial temp gauge. Its the only accurate way to keep an eye on your motor. At the same time change the thermostat to 180F. Fords run too hot standard.

[GK]

Originally Posted by 99auforte

Okay so I shouldn't worry then?

The car's not actually overheating. If the coolant is a nice bright green and the header tank is full you should be okay. If your car is on petrol, remember that the AU has the failsafe cooling system, whereby if you lose a stack of coolant, it will alter the firing order so you can safely drive it a short distance so you can get it fixed.

After this hot spell clears, if the car doesn't return to the temp level on your gauge as before, it may be time for a radiator flush and new thermostat.

GK

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by GK

The car's not actually overheating. If the coolant is a nice bright green and the header tank is full you should be okay.

Well it is red but yes, it is full.

Originally Posted by GK

If your car is on petrol, remember that the AU has the failsafe cooling system

Yep - I read that somewhere - does it work on gas however? I run mostly on gas.

Originally Posted by GK

After this hot spell clears, if the car doesn't return to the temp level on your gauge as before, it may be time for a radiator flush and new thermostat.

Is it normal for the gauge to move at all after reaching optimum temperature?

Someone suggested earlier to get a flush - I think I will anyway - but I did replace the thermostat a couple of days ago.

Also suggested was an after-market gauge - are these easy to fit? - not mechanically minded (have once fit an oil gauge to a Mazda 808 but thats it) and are these small enough to conceal? I'm not into big fat gauges. If I was to install one, any suggestions where to place it in the AU?

[trick_xd]

Not going to help your problem .
BUT.

The bottom of the thermostat you should cut off as when it is really hot the thermostat opens up all the way and the base of it closes off the water by-pass pipe under the thermostat and then that in turn restricts the water from getting to the gas converter and then the gas converter will start to freeze up , when that happens your first feeling will be loss of power.

IF you are going to buy another thermostat save your self some money and get a BA Short thermostat ( you will still have to buy another rubber "O" ring)

[GK]

Originally Posted by 99auforte

Yep - I read that somewhere - does it work on gas however? I run mostly on gas.

Is it normal for the gauge to move at all after reaching optimum temperature?

The failsafe cooling isn't compatable with LPG. It's about the ignition timing etc. You could try running it for a few days on the same hills you were mentioning on petrol. That will bring the failsafe cooling back into play, and seeing what the gauge does then. If it's not moving at all, then TrickXD is on the money I'd say.

Remember gas does run hotter than petrol.

I wouldn't worry about another gauge, but I understand your concern about your car.

In extreme weather, such as what you're experiencing, I can't see how the car running a bit hotter than normal is anything to worry about. After all, you did say you were going hard up a steep hill in very, very hot weather. If the gauge didn't return to it's usual position after such a run, then perhaps I'd think you've got a problem.

You certainly could get the cooling system fully flushed and try TrickXD's thermostat trick.

When we were in Canberra NYE (veeery hot) we had our gas system playing up a bit, with there being a loss of power under larger throttle applications. The weather cooled down and it was okay again.

GK

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by GK

When we were in Canberra NYE (veeery hot) we had our gas system playing up a bit, with there being a loss of power under larger throttle applications. The weather cooled down and it was okay again.

GK

You guys have triggered something else which I think puts this all into place now - I am experiencing power loss at the same time - its as if something is stopping the car from accelerating faster - somewhere around 3,500rpm at about 90km/h up the hill it struggles a bit and then the temp is moving - I spoke to gas mechanic about this and he said something to the effect that it was normal as some part in the system opens up (or closes) and prevents further acceleration - he explained he could fix it but then I'd experience some loss in economy.

[trick_xd]

If you loose power at the same time then do as I say and cut the end off the thermostat .
There is a thread on here that I have even put up pics to help the person as they had the same problem as you .

Do a quick search and and read that thread as well and you will be right .

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by trick_xd

If you loose power at the same time then do as I say and cut the end off the thermostat .

In theory then I could switch to petrol and I should not get the same thing occurring? My mechanic is disagreeing with you telling me to replace my Radiator - which I am reluctant to do as it is only 15 months old as is the heavy duty model.

[GK]

Originally Posted by 99auforte

In theory then I could switch to petrol and I should not get the same thing occurring? My mechanic is disagreeing with you telling me to replace my Radiator - which I am reluctant to do as it is only 15 months old as is the heavy duty model.

I can't see where anyone has asked you to replace the radiator. Flush it yes, replace the thermostat yes, but not the radiator.

Give it a go on petrol, which I think I told you to do a few posts ago. It won't cost you anything to try. If it's okay on petrol, then it's the gas. A thermostat is cheap and easy to replace. TrickXD knows his gas stuff.

GK

[GK]

Originally Posted by trick_xd

If you loose power at the same time then do as I say and cut the end off the thermostat .
There is a thread on here that I have even put up pics to help the person as they had the same problem as you .

Do a quick search and and read that thread as well and you will be right .

Swanny, I've searched 7 pages of threads looking for the one you're talking about. No joy. I'd like to see this thread myself.

Can you locate it for us?

GK

[Mechan1k]

I had so many issues with temperatures at one point ... and it was due to load/excessive heat/hills.

I run factory LPG ... so no failsafe cooling setup ... so it just got hot.

Mine sits on the right side of the "O" ... and that's 94 deg C using the dash diagnostic mode. When it gets to H and the actual red warning light to appear is around 108 deg C (approx).

I replaced anything and everything that I could think of ... as they did need replacing.
It still kept getting warm ... but when backing off it would go back to Normal straight away.

Really ... after I had replaced everything ... underload on really hot days ... it does creep up a bit.

At the end of the day there's a number of things to get checked (and items to use).

For an LPG vehicle you really need a skirtless thermostat to allow constant flow-through of coolant.

Things to check replace:

Thermostat.
Water pump (internals corrode out and it becomes less effective)
get your radiator flushed (and the rest of your cooling system).
Cylinder Head Temp Sensor (driver's side rear of the head).

All in all though ... when it comes to high temps ... and pushing up long hills ... I have heard of AUs getting a little warm ... JC has mentioned it happening to him ... I have had it with mine as well (loaded up as well).

One thing I have found that has helped was installing a twin core radiator. I also had my auto electrician modify when my thermo fans turn up to high speed with the A/C. Instead of waiting for Fan speed 3 or higher to trigger the High Speed setting .... now as soon as I turn my A/C on (Fan speed 1) ... my thermos switch straight to high speed.

Makes a hell of a difference though ... the twin core radiator really helps when on the move though ... I haven't had the issues of temp spikes on hills this Summer (but we have had a really mild Summer this year).

[trick_xd]

the thread is HERE
I will have to up load the pics again for you into this thread.

EDIT... as I don't have my old computer back yet and I don't have them on photo bucket So I cant help with any pics for a few weeks. .

[FGII-XR6]

i have been told by a few radiator blokes ( and a ford mechanic)the red coolant is a problem in falcons and causes the radiator to clog up . thats why they went back to green coolant. you may find your radiator is cactus and you will need to do all your hoses too to do it properly then flush till there is no trace of red coolant the red coolant actually gets into the rubber in the hoses and reacts with the green coolant (so I was told) thats why all hoses need to be replaced

[99auforte]

There's certainly a lot to mull over - spoke with Natrad today who replaced the radiator 15 months ago - they also said replacing it was ridiculous and would probably need to simply clean it out.

He did say I was probably expecting a little too much for it not to go up under the described scenarios, guess because in the 3 years I have owned it I have never seen it move I got worried.

I did notice 1 thing when checking coolant levels this morning - my red coolant is now green.....had a service 2 weeks ago and I don't recall a flush being done or being charged for one. Now is it just me or has my mechanic done something potentially stupid here - which could be why he's leading me to want to replace the radiator.

If he has not flushed the radiator and simply topped it up with different coolant and now I have had these fluctuations then perhaps this has been the cause..in which case what avenues should I pursue?

[sly]

Originally Posted by GK

I can't see where anyone has asked you to replace the radiator.

Just a simple matter of punctuation IMHO. The OP's mechanic is disagreeing with Swanny and wants the OP to replace his radiator.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by 99auforte

There's certainly a lot to mull over - spoke with Natrad today who replaced the radiator 15 months ago - they also said replacing it was ridiculous and would probably need to simply clean it out.

He did say I was probably expecting a little too much for it not to go up under the described scenarios, guess because in the 3 years I have owned it I have never seen it move I got worried.

I did notice 1 thing when checking coolant levels this morning - my red coolant is now green.....had a service 2 weeks ago and I don't recall a flush being done or being charged for one. Now is it just me or has my mechanic done something potentially stupid here - which could be why he's leading me to want to replace the radiator.

If he has not flushed the radiator and simply topped it up with different coolant and now I have had these fluctuations then perhaps this has been the cause..in which case what avenues should I pursue?

If your mechanic has just topped your coolant up ... and mixed it ... I'd suggest flushing it and starting over with new coolant ... and I suggest getting the radiator flushed at the same time ... maybe even a pressure test just for good measure.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

If your mechanic has just topped your coolant up ... and mixed it ... I'd suggest flushing it and starting over with new coolant ... and I suggest getting the radiator flushed at the same time ... maybe even a pressure test just for good measure.

and make sure he foots the bill given he was at fault mixing coolant.

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by b2tf

and make sure he foots the bill given he was at fault mixing coolant.

Hrmmm will do;

The car went to L in NORMAL today on petrol so - that probably blows the Gas theory I'm thinking - which swings me to the Coolant mixing issue seeing it only occurred since the service.

I'm finding it hard to trust anyone related to care repairs now - it seems anyone I take my car to sees me coming.

Here's my plan;

Remove and flush radiator and system
Replace all hoses
Replace coolant
Check Water Pump and replace if needed
Pressure Test System

So I'm probably out of pocket about $300-$600 depending on the water pump. So how much of that should I claim from my mechanic and who should I go through to get this compensation (assuming I can professionaly prove my theory).

[GK]

This is beginning to have way too many variables here! LOL!

You need to follow a plan of attack, step by step to get potential problems crossed off the list.

Let's look at the facts.

1. It's been stinking hot in SA.
2. Your car is getting hotter going full on up steep hills.
3. Your car runs a hotter burning fuel LPG
4. The temp (although hotter) still operates within Normal range.
5. The temp returns to where you're used to it being, after the hill is climbed.
6. You had red coolant (are you 150% sure) before and now it's green.
7. You've replaced the thermostat (but not done TrickXD's recommended mod)

OKAY

It could be a stack of problems together, or something very simple.

HOWEVER

You really need to try one thing at a time.

1. Have you tried the hills on petrol like you suggested? Turn the car around and run the same hill on LPG. Did the prob go away on petrol? Did it return on LPG?
2. Is the coolant header tank full?
3. Have you taken TrickXD's advice on the thermostat?

THESE above things won't cost you any real dollars. It's not wise to do much else until you've eliminated them from your TO DO / CHECK LIST.

Do them and if there's still the problem, then it's wise to do the following.

1. Go to the radiator place (Natrad?) and get them to flush your engine and cooling system and replace it with the correct spec coolant.
2. Ask them to replace the hoses in that process.

Try the hills again. If the problem is still there, you may then need to look at a new temp sensor on the back of the engine or a new waterpump. Follow the list ticking off the things one by one. If you don't do it in an orderly and logical way, it'll do your head in, and you'll just go around and around the problem again and again, which seems to be what you've been doing.

Try a solution. If it doesn't work, try the next thing, and the next thing. Do the easy and cheap things first. You will get it sorted.

AND ABOVE ALL, remember that the problem didn't exist until the crazy hot spell you've had. In spite of the temp rise, your engine hasn't once gone into the red zone.

Cheers,

GK

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by GK

1. It's been stinking hot in SA.
2. Your car is getting hotter going full on up steep hills.
3. Your car runs a hotter burning fuel LPG
4. The temp (although hotter) still operates within Normal range.
5. The temp returns to where you're used to it being, after the hill is climbed.
6. You had red coolant (are you 150% sure) before and now it's green.
7. You've replaced the thermostat (but not done TrickXD's recommended mod)

Yes to 1, 2, 4, 5, 6(200%) and 7 - no not done the mod - would love to see TrickXD's mod)

Originally Posted by GK

1. Have you tried the hills on petrol like you suggested? Turn the car around and run the same hill on LPG. Did the prob go away on petrol? Did it return on LPG?

No difference

Originally Posted by GK

2. Is the coolant header tank full?

Yes Full

Originally Posted by GK

3. Have you taken TrickXD's advice on the thermostat?

No

Originally Posted by GK

remember that the problem didn't exist until the crazy hot spell you've had. In spite of the temp rise, your engine hasn't once gone into the red zone.

True!

[trick_xd]

WoW A hard 1 then.

I would do what GK has said and do things 1 at a time

If it was me I would pull the bottom radiator hose off wait for all the water to run out then put it back on again and remove the bypass hose from under the thermostat housing and put the garden hose up that pipe , turn your heater tap to Hot and put through water until it only runs clean from the motor then dump the bottom hose again then refill..

Then with JUST WATER I would go back to that hill again and see what it does.

[InfernoSR]

Want me to have a crack at figuring this out? I've been in the cooling systems game for over 10 years and between me and my parents, over 60years experience...

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by BLUEPRINT

Want me to have a crack at figuring this out? I've been in the cooling systems game for over 10 years and between me and my parents, over 60years experience...

Sure! - either way - I need to do something. Anything large is going to impede on the work van I have to buy this week - so I'd love it to be small -in saying that and bearing in mind what GK said - I will wait until I et back from Mildura after Easter.

[InfernoSR]

Ok... couple of things I'd be doing for a start (seeing as i have nearly cooked mine on 3 seperate occasions)...

1. Get a pressure test and check all hoses for a leak, heater outlet pipes are notorious for letting go without warning.

2. Get the cap pressure tested too... not all the time they are good from factory (i always tested them before selling)

3. Check to make sure the thermostate is the right temp and type (take a pic for me if you can).

4. Give the system a thorough flush (i have a DIY tutorial i can find for you) test vehicle with water only afterwards (wont harm anything if used short term).

5. Get the right conditioner and refill it (dont use genuine Ford stuff... if you can get either Adrad or Natrad branded conditioner in the right amount for the AU, then go for it, if not, Tectaloy Gold - concentrate - not premixed).

If these dont help, then i still have a few other idea's up my sleeve for you mate.

[99auforte]

Originally Posted by BLUEPRINT

Ok... couple of things I'd be doing for a start (seeing as i have nearly cooked mine on 3 seperate occasions)...

1. Get a pressure test and check all hoses for a leak, heater outlet pipes are notorious for letting go without warning.

2. Get the cap pressure tested too... not all the time they are good from factory (i always tested them before selling)

3. Check to make sure the thermostate is the right temp and type (take a pic for me if you can).

4. Give the system a thorough flush (i have a DIY tutorial i can find for you) test vehicle with water only afterwards (wont harm anything if used short term).

5. Get the right conditioner and refill it (don't use genuine Ford stuff... if you can get either Adrad or Natrad branded conditioner in the right amount for the AU, then go for it, if not, Tectaloy Gold - concentrate - not premixed).

If these dont help, then i still have a few other idea's up my sleeve for you mate.

Cheers for your guidance, due to the fact its 40 today and tomorrow I work all day and then I need to depart this week, _I have printed your list and will give it to Natrad on Tuesday - although it may seem easy stuff I am taking this issue seriously enough to spend some money on it.

I may not know enough but to me it seems strange that since my service this has occurred - it was hot in Adelaide before my service took place. The coolant has been mixed and my mechanic was very keen to just replace the radiator. I'm a data and phone cabler - if it was working before and then someone has fiddled and now doesn't work the same way - then it's usually the 'fiddling' that has done something - in this case - the service. Otherwise....VERY big co-incidence.

[InfernoSR]

I tend to agree with you mate... when people fiddle with things they dont know much about, it tends to end up wrong... :P