Will Ford and Holden go early?.

ryeman · 31-12-2013, 09:18 AM

Have the current CEOs of both manufacturers (whoever they are) PERSONALLY made a definitive statement confirming their exit dates because I find it difficult to believe that their Detroit bosses are prepared to keep loosing money for 2-3 more years with a downward spiral in demand.....it just doesn't make sense.
Amongst AFF members, I would imagine, there is an expanding number of Fiesta Focus Mondeo and Ranger fans who REALY don't give a toss now management have declared their true colours...."what're here to stay

"
Not having personally made THAT statement gives them room to wiggle.....don't be surprised if they make a statement along the line....'due to ever decreasing demand.......'

DRU842 · 31-12-2013, 09:24 AM

Except that they have contracts/commitments to suppliers, government etc, as well as customers. Of course these can be 'bought out' but only at great commercial and market expense.

Jason[98.EL] · 31-12-2013, 09:27 AM

have a look at THIS THREAD

it is from russelw and the source is ford media so we do know ford are still doing the falcon in 2014

have not heard anything about holden though but i would hazzard a guess they will be here as long as ford are

ryeman · 31-12-2013, 09:45 AM

The longer they stay, the more the redundancy also which adds more to losses.

ryeman · 31-12-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

have a look at THIS THREAD

it is from russelw and the source is ford media so we do know ford are still doing the falcon in 2014

have not heard anything about holden though but i would hazzard a guess they will be here as long as ford are

That's if you believe 'media' departments.
Nail down the CEO to that as a confirmed timeline.
If I was a US shareholder I would want to know why they intend to lose money for so long.....unless suppliers or the previous assistance packages DO have them over a barrel?.
Otherwise I just don't see them as being loving and caring.

Gadgetman · 31-12-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

have a look at THIS THREAD

it is from russelw and the source is ford media so we do know ford are still doing the falcon in 2014

have not heard anything about holden though but i would hazzard a guess they will be here as long as ford are

pure rubbish. There will be a 2014 falcon. She's locked in. Best change I like about it is DAB. I like listening to AM without static.

ryeman · 31-12-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

pure rubbish. There will be a 2014 falcon. She's locked in. Best change I like about it is DAB. I like listening to AM without static.

Nice to see you trust Detroit.

Gadgetman · 31-12-2013, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeman

Nice to see you trust Detroit.

Nah, Just one of those people that prefer to think the glass is half full.

Adamz Ghia · 31-12-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeman

Nice to see you trust Detroit.

Do you find conspiracy theories in everything...?

Gadgetman · 31-12-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeman

That's if you believe 'media' departments.
Nail down the CEO to that as a confirmed timeline.
If I was a US shareholder I would want to know why they intend to lose money for so long.....unless suppliers or the previous assistance packages DO have them over a barrel?.
Otherwise I just don't see them as being loving and caring.

call the whole 2016 thing an expensive marketing exercise. The reason why Toyota will be the 3rd and last to pull the pin is cause of brand image as well. If something major such as manufacturing shutdowns aren't handle in best light, the negativity by the public as a result could cost them much more long term hence the decent gesture by Ford and Holden thus far.

ryeman · 31-12-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Do you find conspiracy theories in everything...?

I think you've confused conspiracy with rational thinking.....there just might be others who are wondering also.....but if wondering upsets you and your the trusting type.....

Adamz Ghia · 31-12-2013, 10:54 AM

So the rational thing for Ford to do is spend $100,000,000 plus on a new model only to not build it...?

ryeman · 31-12-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

So the rational thing for Ford to do is spend $100,000,000 plus on a new model only to not build it...?

From a US shareholders point of view YES from my point of view I hope NOT being a dual fuel FG owner.
Check out the big city dealership windows and you see the now not the future.

zilo · 31-12-2013, 11:06 PM

The dollar isn't at $US1.10 anymore...its about 0.88

Watch them all change their minds about employing the white trash of Asia at discount labour rates.

Holden and Ford certainly weren't complaining about the profits from the aussie slave labour force when we were at 0.48 to the US dollar in 2002.

GASWAGON · 01-01-2014, 12:20 AM

Thers still 3 years until the shutdowns......I believe anything could happen in that timeframe.....The U.S calls the shots as it always has......I have posted before that I am surprised the big two hav'nt pulled the pin earlier than 2016.....We'll just have to wait and see???

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE !!!!!!!!!!

Struggo · 01-01-2014, 08:03 AM

I believe they will stay the course as they need to maximise their returns on VF & FH.

superyob · 01-01-2014, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Do you find conspiracy theories in everything...?

One does not have to be a conspiracy theorist to question much of what we are asked to believe...

No matter if they do or don't go early, the fact is that they are planning to make their local manufacturing disappear in the near future.

I'll still sleep at night, nothing I can do about it...

au2000 · 01-01-2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superyob

One does not have to be a conspiracy theorist to question much of what we are asked to believe...

No matter if they do or don't go early, the fact is that they are planning to make their local manufacturing disappear in the near future.

I'll still sleep at night, nothing I can do about it...

exactly.. after all years ago when the fairlane, falcon wagon & advertising dropped off some were saying that was the start of the end of the falcon as it was a planned exit , some would say it was good financial management either way hindsight shows us that they were warning signs that the landscape was changing..
i said something similar when the fg II came out & the falcon badge was now deleted from xr6 & the commodore badge was also no longer being applied that this looked like a way of dropping those names & preparing customers for a new fresh name by both manufacturers... not tell tale signs that a change was coming but all little things over time ad up.. i truley hope both stay till 2016/2017 as promised but i also would not be suprised that both slowly begin to deplete their workforces as much as possible between now & then

geehaa · 01-01-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeman

That's if you believe 'media' departments.
Nail down the CEO to that as a confirmed timeline.
If I was a US shareholder I would want to know why they intend to lose money for so long.....unless suppliers or the previous assistance packages DO have them over a barrel?.
Otherwise I just don't see them as being loving and caring.

The question is does ford see oz as a viable market? If yes, then they need to protect their brand and there is value in that, which really should be offset by the more easily quantified manufacturing loss. The board is ultimately responsible to the shareholder and they have made the call to do what they're doing.

ryeman · 01-01-2014, 12:24 PM

It's still almost a year to go for an inexpensive update (FH) and by that time the show rooms are supposed to make sig space for a 'stillborn' large product.....
How they handle that will be interesting as the sales staff will be wanting to keep customers focused(

) on the future of exciting new ONGOING products.
The distraction of going back to one last blast from what is already the past will IMO be, for marketing, a distraction and a confusing message.....trying to launch a 'new' car which is ceasing production 24 months later.
I'm assuming the 2013 Mondeo will also appear around the same time, which won't help keep attention on the FH seeing, as well, all large sedans from both manufacturers will be FWD as the future.....
I guess it comes down to just how many are 'rusted on' to the past and prepared to gamble on depreciation. My FG will be driven into the ground it seems judging by current trade in valuations.
A change in CEO could be a sign......

geehaa · 01-01-2014, 12:34 PM

I reckon they will push more on the upgrade/refine angle not the new model angle. Will 'last release' pull more buyers out?

Dr Smith · 01-01-2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeman

From a US shareholders point of view YES from my point of view I hope NOT being a dual fuel FG owner.
Check out the big city dealership windows and you see the now not the future.

Trust me, any loss Ford Australia might announce in future will be a pimple on the bottom compared to the profits Ford globally will produce in the next few years. And a loss on your tax return doesn't mean you stood on Sydney Road tossing cash out onto the highway.

CyberWasp · 01-01-2014, 12:36 PM

Ford took one handout too many from the last government hence the updated Falcon and Territory coming out this year. If they hadn't of taken it they would have been gone already.

My question is.... When you are dealing with large Multinational companies with different divisions all over the place. Can any financial figures quoted truly be trusted?
It is easy to 'cook' the books so to speak either way and move money around the company by different means. Ford Australia can be made to run at a loss or could be made to have the biggest profit of all the divisions. Head Office can use creative accounting to paint any scenario they so wish.

ryeman · 01-01-2014, 01:12 PM

So it seems the handouts have 'contracted' them to 2016 production....
Poor sales staff and marketing departments, BOL with that!

jpd80 · 01-01-2014, 05:56 PM

The investment on next Falcon and Territory refreshes is peanuts, all Ford has to do is hang in there
with current sales levels until the finish and it will recover its investment and close out supplier contracts.

Holden on the other hand has just invested $400 million but will miss investment on next Cruze
which is due late 2015, so I'd expect to see local Cruze bow out in about two years time...

ryeman · 01-01-2014, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The investment on next Falcon and Territory refreshes is peanuts, all Ford has to do is hang in there
with current sales levels until the finish and it will recover its investment and close out supplier contracts.

Holden on the other hand has just invested $400 million but will miss investment on next Cruze
which is due late 2015, so I'd expect to see local Cruze bow out in about two years time...

Cruze.....why do I not feel that that will be a great loss?.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-01-2014, 10:40 PM

Holden have stated they'd stick around until 2017. But isn't there some Euro 6 emissions taking place at the start of 2017? If Holden can't get concessions, I'd be surprised to see them invest in Euro 6 just to continue for half a year into 2017.

Lukeyson

Gadgetman · 02-01-2014, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The investment on next Falcon and Territory refreshes is peanuts, all Ford has to do is hang in there
with current sales levels until the finish and it will recover its investment and close out supplier contracts.

Holden on the other hand has just invested $400 million but will miss investment on next Cruze
which is due late 2015, so I'd expect to see local Cruze bow out in about two years time...

Yup. Bang on. They never said Cruze will go till 17

jpd80 · 02-01-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Yup. Bang on. They never said Cruze will go till 17

And that means roughly half of the staff will finish up early, not at the end like everyone thinks...

ryeman · 02-01-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

And that means roughly half of the staff will finish up early, not at the end like everyone thinks...

I guess a lot of the younger ones will be off to another job if they can find one, not much redundancy for them to miss out on, a job being the priority.