Tips for dealing with insurance companies

[King Nothing]

Ok people, I wanted to give you all a heads up when it comes to dealing with insurance companies. I want to make sure that nobody goes through what I have been through. All of this experience gained is with the nrma, so im not sure how it applies to other insurers. Also, this advice is aimed at ensuring you get a gaurantee. Im not sure if exceeding the excess (see below) will impact your record. I know that some insurers want to know the value of damage done in claims. I imagine its similar though. Bit of background. I was involved in 2 small accidents, one my fault, the other not (bad luck, hey?). Most of this deals with having an at-fault accident. Ok, here we go

1. "Authorisation"
What is authorisation? Most people would think authorisation is your insurance company saying that you can take your car to be repaired. NOT TRUE! Authorisation is who pays for the repair.

2. Example
I had a minor at fault accident. The damage done was around $600. As I am under 25, the excess was the basic excess ($500) plus the age excess ($400) for a total of $900. I took my car to the nrma assessment centre, and after assessment said that I did not have a preffered repairer. So the nrma sends me to their preffered repairer, telling me to pay them direct and pay the difference (~$300) to the nrma.

DO NOT DO THIS!

3. Why?
If you pay the repairer direct, YOU are authorising the repair, NOT THE NRMA! Why does this matter? The guarantee, thats why.

The nrma states that they offer a "lifetime guarantee on all authorised repairs" Authorised is the key word here. IF you pay the repairer direct, then YOU are authorising the repair, NOT THE NRMA, and hence, NO GUARANTEE!

This is despite the fact that the assessor told me to pay the repairer, and that the nrma product disclosure statement states that you can pay "to the company (nrma), supplier or repairer".

4. What does this mean?
This means that you do not get a guarantee with the nrma. You do, however (according to my conversations with the nrma) get a restricted guarantee, with the repairer. Not much help if the repairer is useless, but a hope nonetheless. If you have paid for repairs and are not happy with them, you have no choice but to go to the place you initially had the repairs done. the nrma have put some weight on the repairer since they recommended them to me. I dont know if they would help if you nominated your own repairer.

5. Paying your excess
Ok then, how do you avoid this catastrophe? This is where things get even more icky. The order in which things are paid, and who to, seems to make a huge difference.

Ideally, you want to pay the excess to the nrma. But this is assuming that the third parties damage will bring the claim to over the excess, if they even claim at all. And waiting for this third party claim takes time. Time which you do not have. You see, there is a condition in your insurance policy that states that the car "must be maintained". This means that, as soon as you inform the nrma that you have had an accident, you must get it repaired as soon as possible. If not, and you have another accident, they will reject the new claim until the old claim is settled.

So, you must hope that the third party sorts out their damage as soon as possible, right? Things get even more icky.

If you have not paid your excess to the nrma, and the third party lodges a claim, then the nrma will not authorise repairs unitl you pay up. In the meantime, the third parties insurance company sends a letter of demad to YOU, asking YOU to pay the damage. I know this because i refused to pay the balance of the excess until my car was fixed, and i got this ***** off letter in the mail giving me a week to pay for damages. I paid the balance of the excess last week, on the day the letter is dated (dont worry, its been sorted).

So you can see the trap.

Your in ***** if you dont tell the nrma about the accident (penalties)
Your in ***** if you do tell them, and wait to get it repaired (no cover on future claims)
Your in ***** if you pay the repairer direct (no guarantee)
Your in ***** if you wait to pay the excess (demand from third party)

6. Possible ways around this trap
One possible way around this is to ensure that ALL the damage is assessed properly. The aim here is to ensure that your damage is greater than your excess. Why? Because that way, you pay the nrma and THEY authorise the repairs, giving you your guarantee.

Part of the damage on my car, whilst I did point it out at the assessment, was not quoted for. The repairer saw it when I brought the car in, and fixed it for nothing. Why would he do this? Two reasons.

1. There is (apparently) a lot of paperwork involved with this, which can be a headache for the repairer and the nrma.

2. The repairer is not paid straight away for the extra repairs. Instead, the extra payment required is spread out over the next FIVE jobs!

If you were a panel beater, would you do an extra amount of work, then have to fill in a whole bunch of paperwork, then wait an extra five jobs to get paid for it? It would just be easier to fix it and look like a good guy, wouldnt it? Thats where the nrma f*cks you over again. By ensuring that damage is not assessed, the damage done to your car will not exceed the excess, hence the nrma will not have to give you a guarantee. Make sure that the panel beater reports extra damage not initially assessed.

7. My recommendations
Please keep in mind that this is based on my experiences, and may not solve all problems. It will hopefully keep you out of the mess ive been in.

1. DONT HAVE AN AT FAULT ACCIDENT!
if that fails,
2. Make sure that the damage will exceed the excess, otherwise no guarantee
3. Ensure that all damage is properly assessed.

Part of the problem is the manner in which you identify damage on your car. You are put into a separate room, and asked to highlight damaged areas on a picture. If you are not 100% accurate with where you highlight damage, then it can get you in trouble. I had damage on the side mould and the edge of the door. I highlighted the general area, and pointed out the specific damage to the assessor. Later, I was told that the damage on the door was not highlighted so it was not assessed. Ask to see the car whilst you are filling in this form

4. Pay to your insurer, not to the repairer.

The key is speed. Go to your insurer. Then get your car assessed. Then get in contact with the third party to see how much damage is done to their car. If it will bring it to the total excess, get them to take it to their insurance agency. When the demand comes in giving you maybe a week to pay, then go pay your insurer. That way you will be set up to pay in time, get your car fixed and get your guarantee.

5. Take photographs of everything, and concentrate on the area of repair. Interior, exterior, everything. Take records of every conversation, no matter how trivial it may seem. Note dates, times, and peoples names. Everybodys names. People dont like to get in trouble, and will help you more

6. Call around.

Make lots of general inquiries. The incompetency I have seen shows that if you can get the one bright spark, the rest will fall into line. Record all of this too.

7. DONT LIE!

The nrma records conversations, and reviews them if you make a complaint. If you say something untruthful, either on purpose or not, they can turn it against you. It didnt happen to me, but it could easily happen if you arent careful.

8. Dont give up!
There were many times I was going to throw in the towel. Whilst i didnt get what I wanted (my choice of repairer for 3rd time around), I have got the nrma's backing to make sure my car is fixed at the repairer to my satisfaction. It was looking pretty glum for awhile, but at least I got that satisfaction

8. Notes on excesses
One quick note, dont let yourself be caught out when it comes to claims and excesses. A claim is only recognised if it exceeds the BASIC excess. At one point, it looked like since my car was under the TOTAL excess, i did not have a legitimate claim. If you are under 25, remember that you are entitled to a claim if it is over the BASIC excess, not the TOTAL excess (basic + age)

9. Notes on non-drivable cars
Another quick notice is to do with having an accident where you cant drive the car due to the damage incurred. This may also apply to an accident where you are not at fault.
The normal procedure when you call the nrma and inform them that you have had an accident, and the car is not driveable, is that the nrma will organise to have the car taken to their assessment centre. They will be nice as pie, offering a cab ride or maybe a courtesy car.
Once it is there however, its a different story. You are in their control. Heres why;
The nrma likes to sent its business to its preffered repairers, because they charge less. They dont like you taking your car to your own repairer as it will cost them more. How do they keep their costs down?
By keeping your car at the assessment centre. You see, if you take your car straight to the assessment centre (at the nrma's expense (?)), it will stay there. They will not pay to have it taken elsewhere. They may not even allow it out of the centre for "safety reasons". The catch is, your preferred repairer isnt allowed to come into the assessment centre to provide a quote. If you want it taken elsewhere, you will have to pay to have it taken there, and taken back to the assessment centre. The nrma will make it as difficult as possible, so that you just go to where they want.

Again just let me reiterate that my experience was with the nrma. Other insurance companies may be different. Read your product disclosure statement carefully, and ask around. I just hope some good can come to the AFF community from my misadventure

[Jayden]

ill read this after I crash :P, nah thx for this man.. its totally boring (as im sure you would agree) but it will help some of us out i bet.

[TwistedEL]

If you are not at fault you should always insist on your prefered repairer.
Also (at least in WA) the law supposedly says that the insurer cannot insist on their prefered repairer, the ultimate decision lies with the owner of the vehicle.
All though no doubt they will make life as hard as possible for you

[b2tf]

I will be honest and say I didnt quite read all of it, but I think when it comes down to it there's really only 3 things you need to remember when dealing with insurance companies:-

1) Be Honest
2) Be sure of yourself i.e. know who you want to repair it etc
3) Be very sure that you have all the details you can about the incident

I've had the unfortunate luck to be almost sued by an insurance company for an accident that wasnt my fault. My insurance company handled everything but for some reason the other party's insurer thought I wasnt insured. That was fun.

I'm now insured with Shannons and I cannot recommend them enough. Decent premiums but more importantly I know that if anything does happen to the ute (god forbid), all I have to do is make one phone call and it will be sorted as soon as possible, regardless of whose fault it is.

[LTDHO]

You aer pretty much stating what is found in the policy booklet, which you would have read prior to the accident and understood all this. It should be no surprise as NRMA would have given you this information.

I assume then you decided NOT to read the Policy book aka PDS. Then YOu have only yourself to blame.

The way I look at it.
If I am at fault then I lodge a claim and pay my excess. I let my insurer do what they have to then I get my car back fixed easy!
If I am not at fault i will speak with the person who is, get their claim details and claim of them.

It is that easy, no trap and no being ********* over.

[Yaw]

the repairer has to give the quote to the assessor prior to the repairs being done. The quote then goes through what is called a "fair and reasonable assessment" The quote is then authorised or adjusted with the repairer being given instruction to 'go ahead" either with less the excess to be paid by the owner or with the insurer having the excess prior. IT IS THE insurance company that authorises the repair, not you by paying the excess to the repairer. I can tell you for fact if the repairs go over what has been authorised unless previously discussed and further authority given to the repairer, all the insurance company will pay the repairer is what was authorised by them. Just this week I saw first hand a repairer short paid over $1000 because it was not authourised.

You mention pay your excess to the insurance company.
that is all good and well,and most insurance companies would prefer this, however its not always possible for someone to come up with the excess instantly, that is why pay the repairer is an option. the car will not be realeased without the excess. (another way to look at it, they use the repaired car as security that the excess will be paid.) And if you cannot come up with the excess prior to the repairs taking place as you suggest, it will delay you having your car repaired as the repairs would not happen without the excess first.

you continually talk about the excess being more than the repairs, ok if you find out later YOU can always withdraw the claim without penalty.

Photos of everything is a great idea and I encourage that, with so many people having camera phones, if you have an accident, take photos of your car, the other persons car and most importantly the driver of the other car so they cannot later claim it was not them.

As for not being assessed correctly, get a secon repairer to do another quote. This is where chosing your own repairer band wagon people fall down. The second quote keeps both parties honest and fair. Actually let the first repairer know before he quotes you are getting 2 quotes. If you are worried about the life time guarantee of your insurer, ask them for a second alternitive repairer so both quotes/repairs are going to be guaranteed because they are both recommended repairers of that insurance company.

Originally Posted by King Nothing

9. Notes on non-drivable cars
Another quick notice is to do with having an accident where you cant drive the car due to the damage incurred. This may also apply to an accident where you are not at fault.
The normal procedure when you call the nrma and inform them that you have had an accident, and the car is not driveable, is that the nrma will organise to have the car taken to their assessment centre. They will be nice as pie, offering a cab ride or maybe a courtesy car.
Once it is there however, its a different story. You are in their control. Heres why;
The nrma likes to sent its business to its preffered repairers, because they charge less. They dont like you taking your car to your own repairer as it will cost them more. How do they keep their costs down?
By keeping your car at the assessment centre. You see, if you take your car straight to the assessment centre (at the nrma's expense (?)), it will stay there. They will not pay to have it taken elsewhere. They may not even allow it out of the centre for "safety reasons". The catch is, your preferred repairer isnt allowed to come into the assessment centre to provide a quote. If you want it taken elsewhere, you will have to pay to have it taken there, and taken back to the assessment centre. The nrma will make it as difficult as possible, so that you just go to where they want.

Thanks for your post King Nothing. With the NRMA, even if you don't have the option of choosing your repairer, you can tell them I want my car repaired at this NRMA-partnered repairer. They'll contact the smash repairer to pick it up from the assesment centre. This is due to the complaints they got with their internet based repair quote system..

[FLYXR6]

i'm with RACV and am looking for another insurer, I claimed a windscreen last year ( i get a free one every year. first time i have claimed one in being insured for 10 years with them and this year convienently my premium went up the $120 the windscreen costed. I don't trust any of them but if people know of a good one (insurance company) let me know?

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by Yaw

IT IS THE insurance company that authorises the repair, not you by paying the excess to the repairer.

Well according to the NRMA, that is not the case. Ive argued it for days, with several different people in different departments, and it kept coming back to this point. Despite the fact that they told me to go to the repairer, they (the repairers) had all my paperwork, that still is not an authorisation

Originally Posted by Yaw

you continually talk about the excess being more than the repairs ok if you find out later YOU can always withdraw the claim without penalty

Maybe i wasnt 100% clear on this. I meant MY repairs, not my repairs plus the third parties. Anyway if the insurance company knows that you have had an accident, and not repaired it, they will not honour further claims until that damage has been repaired

Originally Posted by Yaw

As for not being assessed correctly,

This was not in regard to assessment by the repairer, I meant assessment by the nrma at their assessment centre. It had nothing to do with the repairers quote or getting a second quote. The nrma did not properly assess my damage, not the repairer.

LTDHO, I really wish it was that simple. But nowhere in the nrma policy book (that I could find) does it state a definition of approved. If someone can point out where it is, then so be it.

Approved to me is having my insurer say to me "go here, they have your details, pay them and pay the rest to us". To the nrma that is not. At the end of the day I was told the wrong information or mislead, whether it was on purpose or not i dont know. After my case was reviewed, the nrma also said that i had been told the wrong information.

[MITCHAY]

My tip is to make your only dealing with insurance be just applying for cover and paying your premium. If only it was that easy :P

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

Well according to the NRMA, that is not the case. Ive argued it for days, with several different people in different departments, and it kept coming back to this point. Despite the fact that they told me to go to the repairer, they (the repairers) had all my paperwork, that still is not an authorisation



Maybe i wasnt 100% clear on this. I meant MY repairs, not my repairs plus the third parties. Anyway if the insurance company knows that you have had an accident, and not repaired it, they will not honour further claims until that damage has been repaired



This was not in regard to assessment by the repairer, I meant assessment by the nrma at their assessment centre. It had nothing to do with the repairers quote or getting a second quote. The nrma did not properly assess my damage, not the repairer.

LTDHO, I really wish it was that simple. But nowhere in the nrma policy book (that I could find) does it state a definition of approved. If someone can point out where it is, then so be it.

Approved to me is having my insurer say to me "go here, they have your details, pay them and pay the rest to us". To the nrma that is not. At the end of the day I was told the wrong information or mislead, whether it was on purpose or not i dont know. After my case was reviewed, the nrma also said that i had been told the wrong information.

I strongly advise you to use thier internal dispute resolution service, if you still get the same outcome go to the IOS, (insurance obudsman service) It is a free service and any ios descion is binding on the insurance company. But they will not accept the case until you have used the internal dispute resolution service of NRMA.

If the vehicle was assessed by the NRMA assessor they approved the repairs.

if you make a claim you must
 pay any excess to us, either directly
or to the repairer or supplier
• we will NOT finalise a claim
until you have paid any excess that
applies

This is page 52 from the NRMA PDS

3 steps to resolve a complaint
1 Talk to us first
 if you have a complaint, the
first thing you should do is
speak to one of our staff.
 if your problem relates
specifically to a claim, speak
with the case manager
handling your claim.
For contact details, see back cover
 if the staff member or case
manager is unable to resolve
the matter for you, you may
request to speak to a manager.
If you are still not satisfied with the
decision, you can go to step 2
2 Seek an internal review
 if the matter is still not resolved,
the manager will refer you to the
appropriate internal complaints
handling department. Our
internal complaints handling
department will conduct a
review of your complaint.
If you are still not satisfied with the
decision, you can go to step 3
3 Seek an external review
 if you are still not happy, you
can seek an external review of
our decision. We can provide
you with information on some
options available to you so that
you can decide which one suits
you best. You may wish to take
your complaint to a legal adviser,
or the independent external
body, Insurance Enquiries and
Complaints Ltd (IEC).


By the way Step 3 is also free to you, the insurance comapny pays for that step win lose or draw.