P Plater Laws NSW

sleekism · 05-05-2007, 05:10 PM

Hey,

Does anyone know what the NSW rules are for p platers regarding cars with performance modifications.

Im considering fitting extractors and exaust to my fairmont but Im not sure if it would be still legal to drive.

I see plenty of p platers in little riceburners with huge drainpipe exausts.

What does they mean "performance modifications" my car came with a purposely quietened exaust bringing power from xr6 172kw down to my Fairmonts 168kw so if i put a larger XR6 style cat back exaust to get back my ponies would that be considered illegal?

Personally I think these laws are stupid I have my full motorbike license so I could drive a V8 twin turbo nitrous oxide equipped motorcycle but not a car WTF?

05-05-2007, 05:16 PM

Performance modifications can mean anything, depending on the mood of the cops. I think it was intended things that will increase power by 20% or so. You should be right with tractors

XR8 Uterous · 05-05-2007, 05:18 PM

I have a few friends with quite a few mods done to increase performance, none of them have ever been asked about them by a cop. These cars arnt exactly cars that blend in either, big exhausts + wheels and that,

Mongoose · 05-05-2007, 05:20 PM

I agree the laws are total BS, i wanted to get myself a ZG fairlane but noooo thanks to these ****y laws i cant have it because im not going to be able to contol the power (despite the fact the BA XT puts out more power on 6 cyl than mine does on 8) But you should be right with the "power increase" police arent gonna pull you over and check your exhaust system (i think)

Steffo · 05-05-2007, 05:27 PM

The NSW P-Plater laws are... Any modification that requires an engineer's certificate is not legal. Since every modification to the engine or drivetrain and almost all interior and body mods require one, that makes pretty much anything illegal.

Keepleft · 05-05-2007, 05:29 PM

RTA NSW, vehicle technical enquiries - 1300 137 302
(Includes Authorised Inspection Stations)

8.30am – 5pm Monday to Friday

Steffo · 05-05-2007, 05:40 PM

Tried to edit message but there's some 10 min limit thing... anyway... here's my extra bit...

Oh and the laws are complete stupidity made by ignorant fools who wouldn't know how to govern a state/country/city if their life depended on it.

Thankfully their foolishness leads to several P-Plate legal performance cars we can still enjoy... but lets look over some dumb discrepancies...

VW Golf GTI, 2.0 Turbo 147kW, 0-100km/h in 6.5 sec... banned, turbo.

VW Golf R32, 3.2 V6 184kW, 0-100km/h in 5.7 sec... legal, N/A. (Note... a 2nd hand MkIV R32 can be had for 35k these days, they're not beyond mortal reach)

How about smaller cars....

VW Polo GTI, 1.8 Turbo 110kW, 0-100km/h in 7.5 sec... banned, Turbo.

Renaultsport Clio 172/182, 2.0 4-cyl N/A 124kW (172), 131kW (172), 0-100km/h in 6.5 sec... legal, N/A.

Peugeot 206 GTi180, 2.0 4-cyl N/A 130kW, 0-100km/h in 6.5 sec... legal... N/A.

And for our rich friends...

BMW 335Ci Coupe, 3.0 TT Inline-Six 224kW, 0-100km/h in 4.8 sec... banned, turbo (despite being safe, with lots of traction control type things, airbags etc etc).

Lotus Exige, 1.8 4-cyl N/A 141kW, 0-100km/h in 5.0 sec... legal. Despite weighing 750kg, with no saftey features at all, wearing semi-slick tyres which give near enough to zero wet grip, being difficult to drive blah blah. But someone with money who's on their P's and feels the need can buy any of the above alternatives... and there are many more, like Type R Hondas, and even the N/A Auto 190kW BF's can crack high 14s. The bans are idiotic at best and don't really restrict young people from owning performance cars.

They do however put more people in crap, unsafe cars as they wait with their money saved for something fast when they're allowed to own it. So they treat their $1000 bombs like crap, and often crash and die in garbage heaps like a 1987 Corolla because they wanted an XR8/SS/GTS25t Skyline/WRX and didn't buy it to keep their money saved.

But anyway... just over a year to go for me. Can't wait to be rid of them. Stupid RTA morons.

XR8-260 · 05-05-2007, 05:52 PM

where was the "no" option? mwahahaha... :monkes:

Fairlane · 05-05-2007, 05:53 PM

I could write a 10 page answer but i couldnt be stuffed. Seeing as though iam under the old rules they dont phase me too much but yeah well some of its just stupid. THe RTA seems to think stupid computer based tests, rediculous speed restrictions (lost count how many times ive seen L and P1 platers have to dice with death on the F3) and stupid vehicle restrictions will stop inexperienced drivers from killing themselves- wake up the RTA.

They ban a ANCAP 5 star Audi A4 or VW Jetta TFSI, but a VS Commodore on 14inch steelies is legit. They allow stuff like a Honda Intega yet ban of Focus Xr5. They ban a Lexus LS400 but allow a BMW 330.

Ives · 05-05-2007, 06:52 PM

I think there should be a mandatory driving school you need to undergo before getting your red Ps. Also you need to pass the program with flying colours.
Oh, where's the money from?... well cut all the benefits for ppl that abuse dole, baby bonus etc etc.

poolkeeper · 05-05-2007, 07:20 PM

Do exhaust, intake and edit. Basically anything that doesnt stick out an say "Im a modification that makes me go faster...
The laws are so wrong...
The last chance learners on tv, they can drive stroked and blown big cubed v8s, and stuff???? wat the????

savagE · 05-05-2007, 07:35 PM

Hmmmm. Reckon I could get away with a 350 holley???

Maybe I could use a non-attention grabbing cover...

GXL078 · 05-05-2007, 10:52 PM

Which Ducati motorcycle can legally be riden by a red P plater these days? Whatever it was it was red and it sounded nice.

sleekism · 05-05-2007, 10:54 PM

I think maybe the Ducati Multistrada

Steffo · 05-05-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Which Ducati motorcycle can legally be riden by a red P plater these days? Whatever it was it was red and it sounded nice.

Anything with a displacement of up to 260cc.

The motorbike rules are kinda funny... they don't acheive what they are set out to... to keep learner's from something fast and powerful...

Can get for ~$3k... a Suzuki RGV250. 250cc 2-stroke, 0-100km/h 3.8 sec, 1/4 in low 11's... ooh yeah.

Shame I loathe bikes.

GXL078 · 05-05-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Anything with a displacement of up to 260cc.

The motorbike rules are kinda funny... they don't acheive what they are set out to... to keep learner's from something fast and powerful...

Can get for ~$3k... a Suzuki RGV250. 250cc 2-stroke, 0-100km/h 3.8 sec, 1/4 in low 11's... ooh yeah.

Shame I loathe bikes.

Found it here:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...iceriders.html
The law was changed a few years ago so can ride most 600s now and a few quick 250s are banned. I didn't know they made any small Ducatis,

Steffo · 06-05-2007, 12:14 AM

Oh wow, they actually banned the RGV250 and a few others. The RTA doing research? Unbelievable!

GXL078 · 06-05-2007, 12:57 AM

I rode a TZR250 the day I got my Ls and didn't think much of it, now its on the banned list.

Bill_R · 06-05-2007, 02:42 AM

For an exhaust mod you'd need to keep the level below the dbA limit and keep the same number of "noise control devices" for it to be legal.

groops · 06-05-2007, 09:34 AM

There's a 600cc Ducati that L's and P's can ride. I don't agree with the way the laws have been imposed. Like motorcycles, there should be a power to weight ratio limit, which allows older v8's the put out next to no power and are in heavy steel cars (but have the look ;) ) to be driven by P platers. My biggest issue with all the laws that they impose is that people are always going to push the limits. Exhaust Mods are fine in NSW provided, like Bill said, they stay below the legal limit. (90db at 1m from exhaust @ 4000rpm or some stupid equation like that). What is probably the most important would be to have it so it's not rattling windows as it runs down the road. While that sounds really hot, it's alarm bells for cops and they'll pull you and make you get things tested and crap. I worked my a$$ off for a few years to buy a stock standard AU3 XR6. bought a Blueprint coloured one and cause it had P plates on it, I got pulled over at least twice a week just for random checking...now that i'm off my p's I've added extractors high flow cat and mandrel bent cat back system. Sounds hot, but it's very 'look at me my exhaust is loud'. And while it's improved fuel economy and added power, it's just important not to give people things to whinge about.
IMHO

Mike

sleekism · 06-05-2007, 12:39 PM

What about insurance wise?

If I have an accident is the insurance company going to renig saying something like "you have a tip so therefore your driving illegally so good luck to you".

I pay a fortune in comprehensive insurance so would prefer it to be effective.

Ives · 06-05-2007, 12:57 PM

How about L platers? no law on them? can L-platers drive a 745kW Suzuki Ignis?

Ridin-High · 06-05-2007, 02:13 PM

I think the Laws are decent, but should only apply to RED P Plates for the V8/Turbos

I would have killed myself for sure if i wasn't in a 4 banga for the first yr of my driving life. I feel now on my green plates i have matured from a *******

groops · 06-05-2007, 04:36 PM

Sleek...depends on how AR your insurance company is. When I upgraded mine and lowered it too I call insurance and they said, sorry 2 mods, we can't insure you. thankfully I already had a sports exhaust on my 'standards' so it's still a sports exhaust...as I said, depends on how AR they are and how that inspector's day has been so far...

Ives...Unfortunately the only law that L platers and P platers share is the zero Blood Alcohol rules...other than that, sons and daughters can drive mummy and daddy's GT, blown STI's, Evo 9's and all other Turbos and V8's...then they have to get their P's and they get stuck in a 1980's ford laser and whinge about it...

Mike

Ives · 06-05-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groops

Ives...Unfortunately the only law that L platers and P platers share is the zero Blood Alcohol rules...other than that, sons and daughters can drive mummy and daddy's GT, blown STI's, Evo 9's and all other Turbos and V8's...then they have to get their P's and they get stuck in a 1980's ford laser and whinge about it...

Yeh, I guess they have their parents sitting beside them. If they really get out of line, the parents can give em the belting of their life once they reach home.

volcom20 · 07-05-2007, 12:18 AM

I think it's stupid, I get harrassed by police every day for just showing my p plates. And get patrols and paddy wagons doing U turns just to breatho me :@

Obviously the only people voting "no" on this thread are those un-effected. Ie, Gold or Black licence holders who just dont know what it's like to be targeted by every patrol car that can see you...

My favourte laughable moment was when a paddywagon done a U turn, started following me, then did another U turn to go the other way (360degrees)... I thought that was strange, but turns out I had a black unmarked GT following me, and the paddywagon caught on a bit late! The black GT then pulled me over. - great....

**Polyal** · 07-05-2007, 12:35 AM

Harassed?..LOL

Police have better things to do than "pick" on pimply teenagers. Although half the time its these people cause trouble anyway.

Airmon · 07-05-2007, 12:42 AM

I still have to read up on these new P-Plater laws but they're complete crap from what I hear and see. You can stop an idiot from taking his car to the limit and killing himself, all you can do is determine whether it will take him 20 seconds or 10?
A mate of mine has a Hilux supercab type thing with Chrome wheels and all that other bling crap people do to Hiluxs, had 2 in the front and 1 person in the back, got pulled over by a highway patrolman, "You cant carry 3 people in a 2 seater, gimme your licence". It took 10 minutes and a thorough explanation and demonstration of how the ute iss a 4 seater and has factory seat belts in the back. They just like to pick you up on whatever they can.
Police have better things to do than target P platers? Seems like they are wasting your taxpayer money by doing it then, but of course its not you that gets pulled over constantly for displaying a P plate so why should you give a ****? Right?
Hell, I have Police trying to race me late at night when I cant see their markings just to get me going so I'll do something they can pull me over for, and not on a handful of occassions either.

Airmon · 07-05-2007, 12:54 AM

Oh and further more...

Quote:

The Government has also launched an advertising blitz in conjunction with the police blitz on P-platers, code-named Operation Novus.

Im sure the fact that there are Police operations targeted specifically at P Platers would suggest the police have better things to do...

:

volcom20 · 07-05-2007, 07:09 AM

Imho any car can go highspeeds. And it's quite often that that is what kills young people. - Not how quick you get there...

If anything there should just be sensable speed limiters on cars (Like the 180Km/h on the EF EL, and whatever other makes had these in place)...

180km/h is plenty enough for someone to kill themselves with... I just dont see how quick you get there as being a key factor... Except young drivers who own these cars might get an ego and show it off a bit too much... But then they should just loose thier licences...

Oh how I wish I could have had a V8 - But then I would have been a holden boy. Instead I choose the 4.0L engine because it was just... bigger :P And was a better basis to work with as I didn't have two heads to deal with etc. Plus being OHC was a big upside.

I dont really know though, when they limited us to 6cyls there was just a "Who could make the quickest N/A Six Cyl" class that was created... And hell, that's what's happened... Now the compatition is just that.

If anything, I would prefer to be driving a highpowered V8 and have more police on the roads, weeding out the idiots.

Oh, and I too have seen the black unmarked GT give it a rev at a set of traffic lights with another hot commodore beside him. Thankfully the Holden driver was smart enough to know they were police.

View Poll Results: Do you think the NSW P plater laws are wrong ?
Yes!	42	61.76%
No!	26	38.24%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll