35mpg-more ethanol

[GTP290]

35 mpg by 2020-more ethanol, this is the new law required by u.s car makers to adhere to.
george w signed a deal yesterday which will see this legislation come into fruition by 2020...........also a question which i raised only just yesterday under the v6 duratec thread, asking why cars cant run on ethanol or more of an ethonal blend, well they will have to run on more ethanol by law aswell, the percentage i dont know, but it will be at least 15% i think!Will this be the end the end of the v8 engine???

[GasoLane]

But...but...but I thought that Dubbya was only the President of Seppoland not OZ! how d'ya figure this will affect our V8's ?

[GTP290]

Yeah doubleya is the president of the usofa, but were are the v8s designed and made?....def not in oz....apart from the boss engine(put together here), but its all u.s componentry.
35 mpg.whats that in litres per 100?
most 8s average aroun 14 litres per 100 in ur average holden or ford

[GTP290]

6 litres in a gallon?
35 miles = 60kms?
so we need 10 litres per 100km....acheivable in a 1800kg v8?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by gtp 2003

6 litres in a gallon?
35 miles = 60kms?
so we need 10 litres per 100km....acheivable in a 1800kg v8?

US gallon = 4l, Imp gallon = 4.54l
35 miles = 56km
(close enough for the sake of this demonstration)

4l/56 = 7.14l/100km

Not quite so easy........

[CATXR8]

correction
4.54 lt per gallon

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by flappist

US gallon = 4l, Imp gallon = 4.54l
35 miles = 56km
(close enough for the sake of this demonstration)

4l/56 = 7.14l/100km

Not quite so easy........

Yup, I can just see all the good 'ol boys in Chebbys fitting Briggs and Stratton's now

[TEaaron]

Omg Noob A Us Gallon Is 3.7854118 Litersssss!!!1111one1

[madmelon]

..thankfully the law allows for trading of "carbon credits" between manufacturers so manufacturers can share their carbon loading between each other and (hopefully, but unlikely) balance things out to the 35mpg. The problems start when you think about the top end sports car manufacturers. They are going to be royally shafted because they don't make "economical" cars and their profits that much in excess of regular manufacturers on a car by car basis. So either they pay the fines, buy the carbon credits or close up...

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by TEaaron

Omg Noob A Us Gallon Is 3.7854118 Litersssss!!!1111one1

Which would bring it to 6.72L/100 km or 14.9km/L. Good luck to anyone meeting that with anything over about 2L and 1200kg.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by TEaaron

Omg Noob A Us Gallon Is 3.7854118 Litersssss!!!1111one1

Not that much of a noob, at least he knows how to spell LITRE and doesn't just copy of a googled page.......

[ebxr8240]

They sell E85 over in U.S now...

[Kryton]

Hybrid V8s could achieve that fuel economy if the technology was researched and developed a bit more.
if it came down to 2 choices, being no V8s or a V8 with an electric motor strapped on the side, im sure most people wouldnt have a problem with the electric motor at all.

[GTP290]

well by 2020, it wont be a case of carbon credits or paying extra carbon tax, with this new energy bill the president has signed, it specifies 35 mpg by 2020 and more use of ethanol(alcohol),no extra taxes for carbon emissions, the vehicles will simply have to comply. The planet is going to experience a fossil fuel usage boom with developing countries like india and china all becoming industrialised and wanting the same things we do, cars,power, tvs, fridges etc, so therfore more use of fossil fuels. There are 2 well documented problems with this, first of all with fossil fuels depleting at a rapid rate, we will simply run out of fuel withing the next half century(estimates are debatable depending on who you talk to). The second is global warming which is the after effects of burning fossil fuels, which is heating up the planet at an alarming rate.I think deisel,ethanol,lpg,electrictricity and even hydrogen could possibly be coming on in leaps and bounds within the next 20-25 years

[GTP290]

just saw an interesting video. www.alcoholcanbeagas.com
a few things i learnt.... the indy cars this year ran on 100% ethanol and they got a higher octane rating than they ever did on methanol, the 5th largest country in the world(brazil) all use ethanol powered vehicles, ethanol will never run out as the suns energy is the main factor in making ethanol. it would cost you around 400 aus dollars to convert your car to run on ethanol as a duel fuel set up. ethanol gets rid of carbon in the air. the amount of money america has spent on the war on terror, would of been enough to convert every vehicle and set up ethonal producing stations across there country. you can make ethanol to power upto 30 cars in your own backyard.the first engines to power automobiles were designed to run on ethanol, gasoline came later..i learnt all this watching a 5 minute interview, also learnt that the ethanol is a bi-product of corn,when its harvested its refined into animal feed, which is the main product, the downsides are is that you cant run ethanol through pipelines, as it has to be transported purely by tankers. there is a huge debate in the usa about ethanol the people against ethanol are also saying its only going to meet 13% of energy demands,(even though brazil seem to cope), they are also saying that pesticides are needed to protect the corn feilds which are a petroleoum based product, so it defeats the purpose, an they are saying that the amount of land needed to grow corn, and transport costs would be to much. Personally i think the knockers are just that, the prob is the oil industries so huge that millions of people would lose there jobs,but you would still need oil to lubricate engines gearboxes etc..

[chevypower]

35mpg is about 7 litres per 100 (without working on it too hard) 30 is 8L per 100, so its gotta be 6-7. Remember this is average, so some will be less and some will use more. I think it's not enough in my opinion. They could get 60-80mpg in a full size pickup like an F350 if they used a serial hybrid option, and over 100mpg if they did that on passenger cars. And what about hybrid fuel cells and pure electric? I used to be all for bio-fuels, but as demand increased over here in the US, so did the price of corn, and then other foods. Even if bio-fuels are only from food not to be consumed by people, its substitute is animal feed and still pushes the price up, it's a good part substitute but you could not fully rely on it, at the rate we consume foreign oil.

[sgt_doofey]

Turbo Diesel V8?

Mmmmmm, Torque!

[StealthAu]

See if Australia went nuclear, on top of cheaper, cleaner power then we have at present, we would also have a cheap viable supply of liquid hydrogen. This is what new cars should be built to run on, if it could be supplied cheaper then petrol, but there is only one way that could happen.

[desGT]

Ethanol is not going to do much for global warming. Excellent series of articles recently in New Scientist magazine about how much land would be required to grow enough crop for Ethanol (bye bye food), but of more concern is what is happening to our forests.

Indonesia at the moment is replacing forests with crop for ethanol, but in the process is releasing huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere from the bogs that are now being laid bare.

There is now a movement to actually cost ethanol in real terms that up until now did not include the harm those crops are doing, transportation etc.

[xr8svo]

Here is food for thought.

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/relea...?release=22295

I was also thinking there might be a pretty good chance of something like this being designed into the new boss\hurricane V8's being developed seeing as they are a brand new engine.

[GTP290]

that truck is the slickest thing ive ever seen, how horn does that motor look aswell, looks like the technologies already there(which it has been for half a century or more,now its been refined) just need the fuels to be readily avalable

[big fella]

Originally Posted by gtp 2003

just saw an interesting video. www.alcoholcanbeagas.com
a few things i learnt.... the indy cars this year ran on 100% ethanol and they got a higher octane rating than they ever did on methanol, the 5th largest country in the world(brazil) all use ethanol powered vehicles, ethanol will never run out as the suns energy is the main factor in making ethanol. it would cost you around 400 aus dollars to convert your car to run on ethanol as a duel fuel set up. ethanol gets rid of carbon in the air. the amount of money america has spent on the war on terror, would of been enough to convert every vehicle and set up ethonal producing stations across there country. you can make ethanol to power upto 30 cars in your own backyard.the first engines to power automobiles were designed to run on ethanol, gasoline came later..i learnt all this watching a 5 minute interview, also learnt that the ethanol is a bi-product of corn,when its harvested its refined into animal feed, which is the main product, the downsides are is that you cant run ethanol through pipelines, as it has to be transported purely by tankers. there is a huge debate in the usa about ethanol the people against ethanol are also saying its only going to meet 13% of energy demands,(even though brazil seem to cope), they are also saying that pesticides are needed to protect the corn feilds which are a petroleoum based product, so it defeats the purpose, an they are saying that the amount of land needed to grow corn, and transport costs would be to much. Personally i think the knockers are just that, the prob is the oil industries so huge that millions of people would lose there jobs,but you would still need oil to lubricate engines gearboxes etc..

I haven't watched the interview, nor will I, but from what you have said it wouldn't take much to work out who funded it. Do a bit of research on US politics, lobby groups, agriculture subsidies and the like and then see if you aren't just a touch more retiscent to accept one interview on face value. Might also pay to do a comparison of energy consumption in Brazil and the US, it might give you more of an idea as to why Brazil is able to rely on Ethanol and the US never will.

[GTP290]

well its happening, more use of ethanol is on the cards, why wont you watch the 5 minute interview big fella? Everyones got there own agendas and it always comes down to money more often than not.We have the luxury of dismissing alternative fuels now cause e rely on gasoline, what will happen when it runs out or becomes way to expensive? As i said before its not the only solution, and the only fuel, i think in the future we will have cars that would be capable to run on 3 or 4 different fuel sources.We just got to keep our minds open and exhaust(pardon the pun) every avenue.

[big fella]

Originally Posted by gtp 2003

well its happening, more use of ethanol is on the cards, why wont you watch the 5 minute interview big fella? Everyones got there own agendas and it always comes down to money more often than not.We have the luxury of dismissing alternative fuels now cause e rely on gasoline, what will happen when it runs out or becomes way to expensive? As i said before its not the only solution, and the only fuel, i think in the future we will have cars that would be capable to run on 3 or 4 different fuel sources.We just got to keep our minds open and exhaust(pardon the pun) every avenue.

I'm not dismissing alternative fuels at all. In fact I don't even dismiss ethanol as part of the solution. I have some very deep misgivings about the US, their corn growers, agricultural subsidies and viability in the long term of an American Ethanol industry.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by gtp 2003

that truck is the slickest thing ive ever seen, how horn does that motor look aswell, looks like the technologies already there(which it has been for half a century or more,now its been refined) just need the fuels to be readily avalable

C'mon!! it's only a "Truck" in America!!