P plates behind tinted windows

[ShallowCrossing]

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

The law is P-Plates must be "clearly visible from a distance of 20 metres".

That's that. If its behind tint and it can't be seen form 20 metres, then it can't be seen. It's also worth noting that the act states (in Victoria) that a "P-Plate" is a 15cm x15cm red disk with a white P. Therefore, if you are driving with a NSW white plate and red P or one of the P-Plates that is cut out to just be a P, then you can be done for it.


Food for thought.

(PS, in anticipation - don't quote me and argue with this, it isn't my OPINION, its law)

Where is the reference for visible from 20 metres in the law?

Road Safety (Drivers) Regulations 1999

217. Probationary drivers must have "P" plates
(1) A probationary driver must not drive a motor
vehicle (other than a tractor) on a highway unless
a "P" plate is conspicuously displayed—
(a) in the case of a motor cycle or motor trike,
facing out from the rear of the motor cycle or
motor trike; or
(b) in any other case, facing out from the front
and rear of the motor vehicle.

It must be "conspicuously" displayed so that would be subject to interpretation. Did you find that 20 metre reference in some case law? If so can you let us know the case title?

[merlin]

Originally Posted by ShallowCrossing

It must be "conspicuously" displayed so that would be subject to interpretation.

Dictionary defines "Conspicuously" as:
1) Easy to notice; obvious.
2) Attracting attention, as by being unusual or remarkable; noticeable.

I would interpret that to mean that P plates behind a dark tint would be illegal if it could not be "easily" seen.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by ShallowCrossing

..........It must be "conspicuously" displayed so that would be subject to interpretation.

And which interpretation do you thing will count, the one of the provisional driver with the dark tint or the one of the policeman with the ticket-book after a day of attending road accidents? I know who my money is on.

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by ShallowCrossing

Did you find that 20 metre reference in some case law? If so can you let us know the case title?

its not a law but the 20m rule does exist, can't provide facts but im sure the cop that told me about this will be able to point you in the right direction, just ring up albany creek police and ask for Green, he'll tell you all about the 20m visibility rule.

[ShallowCrossing]

Thanks Heeno, but I was specifically quoting Vic legislation. I'll give Mr Green a call though and let him know you are giving out his name to answer all legal questions at AFF. :

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by ShallowCrossing

Thanks Heeno, but I was specifically quoting Vic legislation. I'll give Mr Green a call though and let him know you are giving out his name to answer all legal questions at AFF. :

Classic!!!

Im sure he will have great pleasure in recalling Heenos details and adding it too the BA listings

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by ShallowCrossing

I'll give Mr Green a call though and let him know you are giving out his name to answer all legal questions at AFF. :

yea thats cool, afterall the cops are there to serve and protect so they should have no worries in helping you out or anyone else.

[BA_Turbs]

Originally Posted by ShallowCrossing

Where is the reference for visible from 20 metres in the law?

Road Safety (Drivers) Regulations 1999

217. Probationary drivers must have "P" plates
(1) A probationary driver must not drive a motor
vehicle (other than a tractor) on a highway unless
a "P" plate is conspicuously displayed—
(a) in the case of a motor cycle or motor trike,
facing out from the rear of the motor cycle or
motor trike; or
(b) in any other case, facing out from the front
and rear of the motor vehicle.

It must be "conspicuously" displayed so that would be subject to interpretation. Did you find that 20 metre reference in some case law? If so can you let us know the case title?

My apologies, you are correct, the only thing that is in law is the definition of a "P-Plate". I am very confident that 20 metres is the accepted rule in a courtroom though, same as number plates must be clearly visible from a 45 degree angle each side of centre to a distance of 20 metres.

It is possible that it is case law or in the Victorian Government Gazette. As far as asking me to quote case law, we both know that's not going to happen with me typing from my computer at home. Perhaps if I was sitting in a solicitor's office, and I had 5 hours to spare, that might happen.

[FordFan86]

Originally Posted by DUMPT

its a fair rule ,but 3 points for no Ps is harsh i think

As is a $75 dollar fine and 6 months disqualification.... (or was it 3)

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by FordFan86

As is a $75 dollar fine and 6 months disqualification.... (or was it 3)

Why? It's a simple requirement, that does not in anyway interfere with your usage of the vehicle unlike other restrictions such as addition speed limits.

Just imagine the penalty description was changed to the offence of "being a defiant knob for no good reason". I honestly cannot see what all the fuss is about.

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

It's also worth noting that the act states (in Victoria) that a "P-Plate" is a 15cm x15cm red disk with a white P.

Wow. So when I was driving with a set of homemade p-plates (Mum drove off with the good ones in the other car), that was illegal. I put so much effort into making them too! Numerous times, when I was driving my parent's wagon, the rear p-plate fell down without me realising too. I'm lucky. Sometimes I'd driven past a cop only to realise later that my rear plate had fallen off. I'm off my P's now so at least I don't have to worry about that problem anymore.

[T_Terror]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Why? It's a simple requirement, that does not in anyway interfere with your usage of the vehicle unlike other restrictions such as addition speed limits.

Just imagine the penalty description was changed to the offence of "being a defiant knob for no good reason". I honestly cannot see what all the fuss is about.

But it isnt simple thats the problem.

Keeping them on isnt a problem. But issues like tint is.

Ive been told off for having a P-plate behind the sun-tint bit thats on top of windscreens (as most/all p-platers do) and others have been fined for this =3points and whatever the fine is and losing their licence.

The penalty behind the law is the problem which was placed as another "get tough, knee jerk reaction". Its the same penalty as runnign a red light.

What was wrong with the original $100 fine penalty? When i jump into others cars i dont stop at servos to affix P-plates and people who didnt wear Ps before dont now.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by ShallowCrossing

Road Safety (Drivers) Regulations 1999

217. Probationary drivers must have "P" plates
(1) A probationary driver must not drive a motor
vehicle (other than a tractor) on a highway unless
a "P" plate is conspicuously displayed—
(a) in the case of a motor cycle or motor trike,
facing out from the rear of the motor cycle or
motor trike; or
(b) in any other case, facing out from the front
and rear of the motor vehicle.

It must be "conspicuously" displayed so that would be subject to interpretation. Did you find that 20 metre reference in some case law? If so can you let us know the case title?

So I can drive a tractor round with no P plates?! Sweet!
:

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

But it isnt simple thats the problem.

Keeping them on isnt a problem. But issues like tint is.

Ive been told off for having a P-plate behind the sun-tint bit thats on top of windscreens (as most/all p-platers do) and others have been fined for this =3points and whatever the fine is and losing their licence.

The penalty behind the law is the problem which was placed as another "get tough, knee jerk reaction". Its the same penalty as runnign a red light.

What was wrong with the original $100 fine penalty? When i jump into others cars i dont stop at servos to affix P-plates and people who didnt wear Ps before dont now.

What isn't simple about it? You all know what is required, you all ignore the requirement and put them behind tinted bars, then all get upset that people like me don't feel sorry for you if you get pinged for it. I see the problem and it isn't with the penalty.

What good reason can you give me for trying your obscure your P-Plate that is worth 3 months of public transport?

[T_Terror]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

What isn't simple about it? You all know what is required, you all ignore the requirement and put them behind tinted bars, then all get upset that people like me don't feel sorry for you if you get pinged for it. I see the problem and it isn't with the penalty.

What good reason can you give me for trying your obscure your P-Plate that is worth 3 months of public transport?

Lol, not trying to give YOU a reason Red, just pointing out the obvious to add my part in this discussion.

Thats right we all do put them behind the tinted bars, but not to obsure them (at least i dont). I simply dont want a big red sign obscuring my vision and the logical place to put them is at the top left corner, hence why everyone does it. I didnt even give it a thought when i started driving.

Not having a sook about it, but the penalty simply dosent suit the crime. Im sure it looks different from the other side of the fence.

[LG]

Mines behind tint, but still can be seen. Maybe not from a quick first glance. I love p-plates, tells you how old hot chick drivers are

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by LG

Mines behind tint, but still can be seen. Maybe not from a quick first glance. I love p-plates, tells you how old hot chick drivers are

LMAO! Thats one way of looking at it!

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Lol, not trying to give YOU a reason Red, just pointing out the obvious to add my part in this discussion.

Thats right we all do put them behind the tinted bars, but not to obsure them (at least i dont). I simply dont want a big red sign obscuring my vision and the logical place to put them is at the top left corner, hence why everyone does it. I didnt even give it a thought when i started driving.

Not having a sook about it, but the penalty simply dosent suit the crime. Im sure it looks different from the other side of the fence.

Yeah top left hand corner does seem logical, no arguments there. But anyone that doesn't know that authorities are red hot on display of P-Plates would have to have been rushed in from the planet Zargot or parts of outback Queensland.

Yes its a "Cause they can law" just like the many other laws the rest of us on either sides of fences, medians etc have to endure. However being in full knowledge that being booked for such an offence, can and does happen. And yet still knowingly obscuring the plates, knowing loss of points can mean another stint on public transport! Such a person is actually committing the crime of stupidity.

Those seeing the law as unfair and draconian are free to write well penned letters of protest to their local members or even to Nelson Mandela himself, good luck with you quest for this important human right. :

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by LG

Mines behind tint, but still can be seen. Maybe not from a quick first glance. I love p-plates, tells you how old hot chick drivers are

Blinged up lancer-Check
Hot chick driving blinged up lancer with car full of hot friends- Check
P plates on blinged up lancer being driven by a hot chick with car full of hot chicks-CHECK!!!

Above is the ONLY the time when lancers are good for anything. :hihi:

Were good to go boys hahha.

Only problem with that is in the ACT we have a P-off course and you get an extra 4 points and dont have to display P plates which means some slip through the net.

[ShallowCrossing]

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

Wow. So when I was driving with a set of homemade p-plates (Mum drove off with the good ones in the other car), that was illegal. I put so much effort into making them too!

There's nothing wrong with home-made ones either, as long as they are approximately 150mm x 150mm plate with a white P on a red background (VIC). So get your colouring textas out! :

[Fairlane]

Heres a suggestion. Get plate holders that bolt on near the numberplate and use some wire to hold your P plates in. For one you wont ever get done for not displaying your plates and 2, nobody could be bothered to try and steal them.

Well thats quite hard to do on the back of most cars were the pressing in the boot metal is about the same size as the numberplate; no space to put any one of those bracket things. The only place I could place it at the rear was on the inside of the window. I've had no problem with them yet and I dont envisage having in the near future.

I try to respectful to police when pulled over, but its hard to repect the cops with the ules and regulations, speed restrictions , random vehicle inspections and having coppers write down your rego whenever more than 2 P Platers are congregating. :

[deesun]

Well judging from the P plates I've seen or can't see around my town the cops don't give a F#@K where they are.

[Lukeyson]

yeah, my wife used to have her P plate in the back window of her XR8 with dark dark windows, and a copper pulled her over and said its illegal and gave her a handful of extra p plates and fitted one to the back number plate for her, didnt book her though, she probably batted the eye-lids a bit :

[deesun]

XR8fella pm sent