Gotta hand it to the W427... - Page 3

**SSD-85** · 19-01-2010, 09:38 PM

The W427 is not a terribly "logical" car. But it is a good proof of concept. I wish Ford would do the same. Anyone remember the Hillier Arrow AU? 6.4L of Crate motor Windsor goodness. If Ford could source a FR Crate engine, release it limited numbers, i think itd be a hit. But if Euro compliance is an issue, well theres always the 6.2L Boss......

GT290 · 19-01-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

Yes the W427 is faster ! why compare......hang on.... the fastest FPV vs the fastest HSV - seems fair to me. (even if the F6 driver will have an extra $80,000 to play with -lol !)

I wouldn't mind betting that lap time came down to brakes.

The Ford fan boys would rather forget the W427. They will attack it's profitability or the outrageous RRP - seldom do they mention the performance.

Credit to the F6 though - killed the R8 and matched an EVO.

Not only brakes but the FPV was side ways on a few corners, that would have lost a bit also. pretty close car if it was set up and better tyres even to the point it could match the 427 Id say

b2tf · 19-01-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

The W427 is not a terribly "logical" car. But it is a good proof of concept. I wish Ford would do the same. Anyone remember the Hillier Arrow AU? 6.4L of Crate motor Windsor goodness. If Ford could source a FR Crate engine, release it limited numbers, i think itd be a hit. But if Euro compliance is an issue, well theres always the 6.2L Boss......

I thought the Hillier car was a 4.6?

The G6ET Spot · 19-01-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

I would like to see 5 laps...
The tyres made a big difference..

One lap would do, with the F6 having 275's on the rear as does the 427 and also a manual.

I would say that HSV would be crying in their soup.

Windsor220 · 19-01-2010, 10:38 PM

W427 is a good performing unit if not a bit pricey. Shouldnt really be compared to the F6 though. Thats like comparing the GTS to the base non turbo XR6.

**Peuty** · 19-01-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I thought the Hillier car was a 4.6?

Nah stroked 5.8 block

Falc'man · 19-01-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Probably not even that lap but kept in for ooh-ahh value in the final edit. You don't honestly believe all the external camera, internal camera etc. was all done on the same lap....

Correct. There were laps for the camera, and laps for the clock.

The W427 would be getting more consistent times over multiple laps, that's why you pay double the price over an R8/GT, and a one lap dash showing that it's "only" 3/4 of a second slower than the F6 doesn't really do it justice.

I still think it was overpriced, and not worth the asking price.

At ~$115k, I would "hand it to the W427"

At $150k+ for an Aussie built dedicated performance sedan it is an embarrassment that it doesn't wipe the floor with some "exotics" at the same price.

In a nutshell, it doesn't outperform the cars in it's price range, like the general FPV/HSV product does, if you were to compare them, dollar wise, with other marques.

jpd80 · 20-01-2010, 12:05 AM

Just out of interest, what was it in the W427 that made the car so expensive?
I've heard that it was loaded with heaps of brake and suspension upgrades...

Will/do HSV now make a similar car with the LS3 Blown 6.2?

Falc'man · 20-01-2010, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just out of interest, what was it in the W427 that made the car so expensive?
I've heard that it was loaded with heaps of brake and suspension upgrades...

Will/do HSV now make a similar car with the LS3 Blown 6.2?

Something to do with not knowing how to fit the LS7 on Holden's production line, meaning HSV received the car with the LS3, then had to remove it and do the install themselves. They had to account for the LS3 motor, and all the other work involved in the swap.

Edit.

Quote:

As you can see in the pic above they also found it difficult aligning the vertical spokes in the air-dam, and you know how it is with dentists, they're not cheap.

jpd80 · 20-01-2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Something to do with not knowing how to fit the LS7 on Holden's production line, meaning HSV received the car with the LS3, then had to remove it and do the install themselves. They had to account for the LS3 motor, and all the other work involved in the swap.

That would be the dry sump thingy and oil resevoir?
Whenever you use Corvette parts bin the price always climbs, Titanium rods too I hear...

Love to see Ford build something similar but more cerebral.
That's not not meant as a put down of HSV but Ford tends to take the high moral ground
on engine technology and I'd love to see them pull out a ripper that tops the bunch.

Outback · 20-01-2010, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3ts50

I would love to see the F6 around the track against an E2 GTS considering it pretty much has the same suspension and brakes as the W427 (when optioned).

The brakes on the W427 are carbon fib $20,000
and the suspension is the same a the supercars $heaps

T3ts50 · 20-01-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outback

The brakes on the W427 are carbon fib $20,000
and the suspension is the same a the supercars $heaps

Im pretty sure the W427 does not have carbon fibre brakes, and the suspension was lowered and recalibrated, not V8 supercar brakes. You might be thinking of the 427 Monaro that they were gonna build but proved to be way too expensive.

GTP owner · 20-01-2010, 08:39 AM

No carbon fibre brakes, but they were larger around 385mm, 6 piston jobbies with greater swept area. Now available on the new gts as an option. Don't forget it was lower, with stiffer springs, recalibrated MRC, oil coolers (i think diff, box and steering), dry sump, upgraded clutch, heavier duty transmission, beefed up uni joints and drive shafts.
Anyone who thinks a tuned f6 with bigger rubber stands a chance is kidding themselves. 3 laps in at full pace and the f6 will be a steaming pile of poo, whereas the w427 will keep on lap after lap. Put stickier semi race rubber on the hsv and the gap would widen by a lot further

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 09:13 AM

Take off LCT and GST before trying to work back its cost however different brakes, wheels, tyres, driveline, suspension, bodytkit, interior, R+D, testing, calibration, tooling, ADR.. etc etc....
Its nothing like a GTS or R8 in anyway other than donar body...

mcnews · 20-01-2010, 09:59 AM

Yes when you look at the big picture the differences become apparent. But really, 7 litre dry sump V8 is enough to make it special enough as it is unlike anything we have ever had available in this country outside of grey imports or supercars. Huge pat on the back for Holden in having a crack and making a decent Halo car. It will probably become the only collectible Holden of the modern era.

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Yes when you look at the big picture the differences become apparent. But really, 7 litre dry sump V8 is enough to make it special enough as it is unlike anything we have ever had available in this country outside of grey imports or supercars. Huge pat on the back for Holden in having a crack and making a decent Halo car. It will probably become the only collectible Holden of the modern era.

Agree... really we need to be encouraging HSV and FPV to have a crack at these types of cars, not bagging them for trying.
for the people trying to simplify the W427 by saying its "just" an engine you have little understanding about the car and the myriad of changes and upgrades its got over the GTS, or how much it costs to build a low volume production vehicle that passes ALL ADR's and can tow a trailer in 50'c heat in the NT or crawl along ice covered roads in Tassie without missing a beat........
Testing and R+D costs money....

ayeyew · 20-01-2010, 08:06 PM

Don't like the look of the HSV... but damn it sounds tough!

F6 needs wider tyres

b2tf · 20-01-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Yes when you look at the big picture the differences become apparent. But really, 7 litre dry sump V8 is enough to make it special enough as it is unlike anything we have ever had available in this country outside of grey imports or supercars. Huge pat on the back for Holden in having a crack and making a decent Halo car. It will probably become the only collectible Holden of the modern era.

Wow, an F6 owner saying this? Few and far between!

GTP owner · 20-01-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayeyew

Don't like the look of the HSV... but damn it sounds tough!

F6 needs wider tyres

wider tyres, then there is more stress on the driveline - say hello to busted cv joints. That's why testing costs so much more than we think!

A couple of other pointers too about the suspension. If you lower you f6 - say r spec, then the car will not put the power down as well as a softer set-up. The holdens have fairly soft settings compared to the fpv stuff, along with their rear end squat means better launches and better power down out of corners. Lower and stiffer springs won't fix that in the f6. The wider tyres will over stress other components, especially if the power is upped. More grip means more heat in the driveline - needing coolers to be attached.....and the list does not end there

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Wow, an F6 owner saying this? Few and far between!

Wait for the avalanche when coyote FPV's hits the showrooms..!

alslandau · 20-01-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

that may be the case but if you have the budget for a w427 you wouldn't even consider an F6

:

stupid comparison lock the thread already...

if you had the budget for a W427, you still wouldn't buy one...mmm choices...mercedes, porsche, bmw...u kidding me.

Chopped · 20-01-2010, 11:05 PM

^ C63 would be the pick (if the GTR is not your thing)

uranium_death · 20-01-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alslandau

if you had the budget for a W427, you still wouldn't buy one...mmm choices...mercedes, porsche, bmw...u kidding me.

But the above are not limited vehicles. They are readily available.
The 427 was a very limited run.
One day, the W427 will be a highly sought after vehicle like the GTHO and such...and so many people will say, "Wow...I want one".

It was a niche market. If I had the money to buy one, I would stick with a 60-70k car as I have no interest in it. For those that bought it, they bought it because they wanted a limited edition Holden/HSV that was the most powerful production car available. Merc, Porsche and BMW do not meet that criteria.

au3 220 · 21-01-2010, 04:07 AM

i've always been of the opinion that holden/hsv is about in your face marketing, styling and 'big numbers'. for me they delivered again with the 427. so imagine that this is your cup of tea, you've got the dollars, your not interested in blending in with the fools driving M3's and AMG's in the slow lane gloating, the 427 would be a helluva fun machine to own.
like most here im not sold on its styling but a 7LTR V8 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!
for all the turbo 6's refinement and v8 raping performance, i cant help but think a further worked f6 wouldn't be an easy thing to throw around with its monster surge half way through a corner.
a coyote fpv with some mods for me thanx.