Box GT demand up?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

All the models of GTs went soaring at the same time and scale as the PH3... The going rate for an XY GT was $200-$250k for a period there - and same goes for everything else lower in the food chain. Now $100k will buy you a very good XY GT - and much less if you want to buy a fixer...

How many XY GTs do you own or have you bought?

Again no doubt prices have come down BUT you are comparing premium car at the height of the market, which would be say a Vermilion Fire, black trim factory 4speed, factory sunroof, unrestored with history and books selling for $250K to what's for sale now maybe a Bronze Wine, auto with brown trim for $100K. Totally diffent value and cannot be compared.

Show me a "good" XY GT for $100K, by that I mean a car that would have topped at $250K at the top of the market. 5 years ago.

The last car that I recall in a hero colour of True Blue factory manual, restored and loaded with repro parts sold for $160K less than 12 months ago.

[XWGT]

Quite simply I think all those who bought them through their Self Managed Superannuation Fund are now realising they are actually taxable if they wish to offload them and are holding them instead.

Added to the decline in prices its a double edged sword.

Added to that FPV released a hammering supercharged V8 that may well have swayed some buyers minds towards modern and drivable as opposed to static and trailer queen material.

[2011G6E]

That's an other good point...do you buy something that is so valuable that it is basically unusable these days, or do you spend a lot less on something exciting that can be driven every day easily?

[jamies]

I had a car on that site years ago.. they take a fair chunk of comm if the car is sold through them. Plus ridiculous prices people are asking.

[Super Roo 1970]

Originally Posted by XWGT

QAdded to that FPV released a hammering supercharged V8 that may well have swayed some buyers minds towards modern and drivable as opposed to static and trailer queen material.

I dont think any of the new fpv's have any bearing on the old GTs at all. They are a completely different kettle of fish and cant be compared. Buyers of both marques buy them each for different reasons.

Not to turn this into a old vs new thing, but rather my perspective as an owner of both, the old cars have the runs on the board in looks, style, character, soul and you can modify them without them being illegal, or fail emissions tests like the new ones. Sure they dont go round bends as well and are slow in stocko form and lousy to stop in any kind of hurry, but those areas can be addressed successfully.

To me my fg2 GT and other current fpv offerings are one stage up from a daily shopping trolley, albeit a souped up rather fast shopping trolley, but not remotely in the same league as the old bangers. Mine is a manual 335 GT its my daily and it is a good daily, but it doesnt feel remotely special like when I hop into my phase 3 for a blast. The new ones looks dont grab me by my short n curlies and scream horn at me either.

The people who want an old GT want an old GT because it is special, it is not a daily driver thing, its a wild beast when unleashed and fun to drive.

There is still good demand for good cars, especially good GTs, but nothing like the insanity of several years ago. I still remember people flashing cash rolls my way asking to buy my ho. I just say NFS.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i think the GFC has scared away the 'investors', but enthusiasts are still in the market.
while the 700,000 phase 3s have come down in price the genuine GTs haven't.

i couldn't justify the cost of a xa-xc coupe, so i bought a fairlane from that era.

Many people did opt for the lesser valued models, and there was some absolute bargains as many sold them to help fund those "Big money spinners,that didnt workout "
Theres still some great value for money "Outside the box thinking" bargains to be had
For me, i couldnt justify a half million or more, garage sitter,or an extention of the manhood
Id rather step down a peg or two, and enjoy the drive,the floggin,and drive the wheels of it

[pottery beige]

there is something very cool bout rolling in a real GT..

flog it, throw it around, omg even drive it in the rain.....

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

there is something very cool bout rolling in a real GT..

flog it, throw it around, omg even drive it in the rain.....

Had to run in the motor properly after the full nut and bolt restoration

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Stefan

How many XY GTs do you own or have you bought?

Again no doubt prices have come down BUT you are comparing premium car at the height of the market, which would be say a Vermilion Fire, black trim factory 4speed, factory sunroof, unrestored with history and books selling for $250K to what's for sale now maybe a Bronze Wine, auto with brown trim for $100K. Totally diffent value and cannot be compared.

Show me a "good" XY GT for $100K, by that I mean a car that would have topped at $250K at the top of the market. 5 years ago.

The last car that I recall in a hero colour of True Blue factory manual, restored and loaded with repro parts sold for $160K less than 12 months ago.

I'm really glad you asked this question.

Well - I can't 'show' you a car that is for sale as described - because I'm talking about cars that have actually 'SOLD' and are no longer on the market. The cars that are for sale vs what they sell for is a different figure all together. Having said that - it's the figure that we all get to discuss publicly - because it's unlikely - unless you're involved in the transaction - to find out the true sale price.

Also for the record - the 'good' cars weren't at $250k in the peak. The 'best' ones were - and those same cars would probably be around the $150k+ area today. Would they actually sell? Impossible to know.

I do take your example correctly - and very much agree with your logic. Unfortunately the opposite of your logic is what drives prices up - the guys with the Auto Bronze Wine / Saddle Trim XYs assuming that their car is valued the same as the Manual Vermillion High Optioned car.

And also - your example is perfect for the next thing I'm going to say as well. $100k recently bought a gen Vermillion Fire 4-speed, Fact sunroof XY GT. Known history, has had an outside paintjob within the last 20 years - but not fully restored (though - wouldn't call it unrestored either). I would have called the car a solid 8 out of 10 in condition.

I also recently was in touch with a guy who had $120k to spend on an XY GT - and what he wanted was a genuine car with a sunroof - preferably yellow, then red, then blue. He could not find a car that suited. Some were too expensive for his budget, some didn't quite have the specs he wanted, and some weren't in the condition that he wanted. But someone who has $120k to spend doesn't necessarily need to buy today... they can wait for tomorrow...

XY GTs - and in fact most collectable Muscle Cars are very difficult to nail a price 'guide' on - because of the huge amount of variables, and the limited (read: Small) pool of actual buyers.

The Yellow XY PH3 that sold last month - $500k - was a surprise to me.... There have been other cars on the market that have struggled at $300k, and there have been others that have been sold at around $250k (a Track Red Sunroof Car comes to mind from last year).

I hope this answers some of your doubts.

In an ideal world where privacy wasn't an issue i'd love to reel off VINS and names to 'prove' my stories. Though, those who know me will have no doubt that my examples are not fairy tales.

[Stefan]

OK that reads a little different now, so what we are saying some premium XY GTs sold for $250K 5 years ago would be lucky to pull $150K but would certainly take a while to sell as you need to find the right buyer.

Yes an XY GT can be had for $100K but you'd need to comprimose on condition or settle for a less desireble combo.

BUT despite the above you might get lucky and you might pick up a killer combo for under $100K but that would be out of the ordinary.

In that sense I totally agree.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by Super Roo 1970

I dont think any of the new fpv's have any bearing on the old GTs at all. They are a completely different kettle of fish and cant be compared. Buyers of both marques buy them each for different reasons.

.

Sorry but I have to disagree
I have owned XW GT and XY GT. Both of which were driven for enjoyment and not garaged.

And if I was to outlay $100k on another toy it would go on a new GT not a classic. The price gap is too large and therefore the value proposition just isnt there.

As someone mentioned earlier buy a K code Fairlane or Fairmont from the same era, save $70k and have almost as much fun or buy brand new 335 and flog it with a warranty.

It was a different decision when all you had to compare were the T3 cars or the 290 GT's. But the 335 changes that significantly I think.

[jamies]

You cannot beat the sound of a 351 Clevo over looking a shaker knowing your in a genuine piece of aussie history.... If you can afford one good luck to you. They are asking such high prices you really have to be careful and do your checking.

[Super Roo 1970]

Originally Posted by XWGT

And if I was to outlay $100k on another toy it would go on a new GT not a classic. The price gap is too large and therefore the value proposition just isnt there.

It was a different decision when all you had to compare were the T3 cars or the 290 GT's. But the 335 changes that significantly I think.

I would not be outlaying 100k on any xw or xy gt. I bought all my big dollar cars before the boom and even my 3 owes me well under 50k.
If I was buying today Id be outlaying 50k or so on a nice xa or xb gt instead, or if I had to own another box car, Id look at a nice one of those South African jobs, they can be snapped up for 25-50k for a good one. Spend a few bob on one of those cleaning up the odd ball bits in em and you have the same car for half the doah and you could run it around as much as you liked without the worry of having your life savings locked away in it.
Both the examples above are still way cheaper and better value than a new 335 depreciation special.

I dont think the 335 engine changes a thing, it is still just an ordinary run of the mill modern car with a very powerful and fast donk, nothing more, nothing special or sexy, just fast.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by Super Roo 1970

I dont think the 335 engine changes a thing, it is still just an ordinary run of the mill modern car with a very powerful and fast donk, nothing more, nothing special or sexy, just fast.

Im sure the same thing was said about the older GTs when they were new. Just another Falcon with a big, powerful donk. And really, that hasnt changed, doesnt make one model anymore special than another.

[Super Roo 1970]

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Im sure the same thing was said about the older GTs when they were new. Just another Falcon with a big, powerful donk. And really, that hasnt changed, doesnt make one model anymore special than another.

They had a following and were considered special even when they were new, remember Moffat and Goss etc and that little hilly race track out the middle of no where where these cars kicked some serious butt??
Even back then these cars had race heritage, street cred and when they won on sunday, they sold on monday's.
The new ones have absolutely none of that, and have been cashing in on the heritage of the old cars, not making any history or leaving any kind of legacy of their own.

The old GT's were special from day dot, and those of us who have been fortunate enough to own them all know that.

[jamies]

Originally Posted by Super Roo 1970

They had a following and were considered special even when they were new, remember Moffat and Goss etc and that little hilly race track out the middle of no where where these cars kicked some serious butt??
Even back then these cars had race heritage, street cred and when they won on sunday, they sold on monday's.
The new ones have absolutely none of that, and have been cashing in on the heritage of the old cars, not making any history or leaving any kind of legacy of their own.

The old GT's were special from day dot, and those of us who have been fortunate enough to own them all know that.

I agree with you Super Roo, I can't afford a GT so I own an Fpv, Don't get me wrong I love the Fpv Pursuit but you can't beat the feel of an old box Falcon.
The old Falcon have to be driven the cluncky toploader with there gated shift,heavy clutch's.... I miss those day's.

[satria]

I love my XW, i don't care what it's worth and i don't care that it's a replica. I drive it in all conditions and all over Australia in fact. My car was already 15 years old when i was born so unfortunately i never got the chance to see what the originals were like in their day but mine is everything i dreamed them to be and more. I plan on never selling it so threads like these amuse me very much

Super Roo seems bang on with everything he has said so far, i agree 100%

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Im sure the same thing was said about the older GTs when they were new. Just another Falcon with a big, powerful donk. And really, that hasnt changed, doesnt make one model anymore special than another.

Yeah nothin special about the older GTs or GTHOs ,
Fastest 4 door in the world at the time, nothin flash now,but was then
Fastest production factory 1/4 mile car then and for decades later. the GTHO times were the benchmark for manufacturers since
They demolished anything in its path ,both on the street and the track for decades
They still raced GTHO PH3 years after they stopped making them and guess what , still held their own
Turn more heads than ANY new car ever will,unless your some 14 year old pimple faced doof doof lover
The GTHO , and maybe a few others of the time ,showed to the world we could build someting that kicked butt
It took brockie over 20 years to help build a factory hottie that could catch the PH3,straight line or round a track
yeah,nothin special them ol dinosaurs ....

[Super Roo 1970]

Just to clarify, I have nothing against the new GTs. I have owned ba, bf and fg, all GTs. The fg being my least favorite aesthetically, but the 335 engine makes up for that and as my current daily the 335 GT is a good car.

But the newbies dont do for me what the oldies do. Be it box car or round.

[sharky1]

THOUGHT I WOULD PUT IN MY 2 CENTS WORTH, i had a xy gt in 1990 when i was 20 years old, but sold it to buy a house ,twenty years later i have bouhgt a zd fairlane in perfect condition just couldnt justify the price of a xy gt

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by Super Roo 1970

They had a following and were considered special even when they were new, remember Moffat and Goss etc and that little hilly race track out the middle of no where where these cars kicked some serious butt??
Even back then these cars had race heritage, street cred and when they won on sunday, they sold on monday's.
The new ones have absolutely none of that, and have been cashing in on the heritage of the old cars, not making any history or leaving any kind of legacy of their own.

The old GT's were special from day dot, and those of us who have been fortunate enough to own them all know that.

Current GTs have a following also, obviously from a different crowd.

Its not fair to say that current GTs have no racing heritage. They can never have it because homologation doesnt exist anymore.

It is the unrealisitc expectations that were shoved onto the modern GT that also create the illusion of them being any less deserving. The world is different now compared to then, so I feel the newer models have shown theyre equally as special given the world they were brought into.

I dont think they have leeched off the success of the older ones to create an inferior product at all. Just because the badge took a 20-odd year hiatus.

This is why I expressed my opinion of them not being special. Because they are no lesser or greater than the current offerings for delivering as intended for a brand new GT. Whether it was new in 1967 or new in 2013.

EDIT: Not trying to ruffle any feathers here.

[Super Roo 1970]

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Current GTs have a following also, obviously from a different crowd.

Its not fair to say that current GTs have no racing heritage. They can never have it because homologation doesnt exist anymore.

It is the unrealisitc expectations that were shoved onto the modern GT that also create the illusion of them being any less deserving. The world is different now compared to then, so I feel the newer models have shown theyre equally as special given the world they were brought into.

I dont think they have leeched off the success of the older ones to create an inferior product at all. Just because the badge took a 20-odd year hiatus.

This is why I expressed my opinion of them not being special. Because they are no lesser or greater than the current offerings for delivering as intended for a brand new GT. Whether it was new in 1967 or new in 2013.

EDIT: Not trying to ruffle any feathers here.

Your not ruffling any of my feathers, I truly respect your opinion bud.

Question - Have you ever owned one of the older GTs at all? I mean properly owned one for a decent length of time? I see by your signature you have a newer one.

I agree that the current ones do have a following, and even some of us old GT owners also own new ones. Iv never had unrealistic expectations of the new GTs, they are modern performance cars, plenty deserving "in their own right" as modern performance cars.
However, you cannot compare apples and oranges as they say, and the old and new GTs are very different in many ways.
Do the new GTs stand alone in a category of their own? Yes I think so.
Are they in the same league or category as the old bangers? NO.

The fact is the new GTs have relied heavily on the success of the older ones right from day one. Look at the advertising of the blue xy gt and blue ba gt round the mountain. Look at Allan Moffat advertising the 335 fg fpv, if that isnt using the legacy of the older cars, what is? That said, I never said they were an inferior product at all.

These are just my opinions and observations as an owner of both kinds of GTs, they arent a stab at anyone or any of the cars and its nothing personal.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by Super Roo 1970

Question - Have you ever owned one of the older GTs at all? I mean properly owned one for a decent length of time? I see by your signature you have a newer one.

Nope, havent even sat in one. Also, I was born around 10 years after the last XB GT rolled off the production line, so I never experienced them brand new either. I certainly would love to own one, XB especially. Which is why Im thankful their prices have come into reach of a peasant such as myself.

Im glad we are on the same page now

[Super Roo 1970]

You should get to know some of the people at your local GT club or the local boys in the GT scene. A lot of us are quite happy to take first timers out for a burn to show em what the old bombs can do. Iv taken plenty of virgins for an eye opening run in my phase 3.