Autospeed's 380 dumping/Territory Praise

[The Taipan]

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2779/article.html

Over the years I have made it abundantly clear I am not a fan of SUVs. Call them what you will – ‘four-wheel drive’ is clearly now a misnomer – but a truck-like vehicle with a high centre of gravity, greater aggressiveness in typical road crash impacts, high profile tyres with poor grip that provide vague steering around centre, lousy aerodynamics, crap interior packaging and the apparently unbreakable habit of being thirsty do not, methinks, make for a good passenger car. As a heavy duty towing machine, sure. As a genuine Outback tourer through the dirt and the dust, fine. But not a vehicle appropriate for dropping kids off at school and doing the weekly, urban shopping run.


Conversely, and this is perhaps as unfashionable a sentiment, I’ve thought over the last half-dozen years the locally-built Mitsubishi Magna has been a fine car. The sweet 3 litre and then torquey 3.5 litre V6s, the early availability of the 5-speed auto with tiptronic-style function, the aero slipperiness that gave excellent highway fuel economy (even when travelling quickly), the competent handling (and far more than just ‘competent’ in the case of the short-lived but phenomenal all-wheel drive Magna models) – these were good cars unrewarded by low resale and, towards the end, subject to outright denigration by the public. (Of course, that low retained value also means that an AWD Magna or late model VRX/Sports represent amongst the very best of secondhand buys.)

But how things change.


I’ve just stepped out of five days in a Mitsubishi 380 LS (the 380 is the Magna replacement)....


...followed immediately by another five days in a TX Ford Territory. (The Territory was the now superseded 4-speed auto model without independent variable cam timing of both cams.)

The Territory, equipped with the 4-litre six developing 182kW, has all the appearance of an SUV: high profile tyres, a tall ride height and a reputation for being thirsty. And, in the RWD-only form of the test car, not even the ability to convincingly rough it. I mean, whydya bother?

Well, I’ll tell you why you’d bother: it makes for a damn good family car. Car, not truck. No, the steering at straight-ahead isn’t as good as a typical sedan, and yes, the Territory does have more initial body lean when cornering. But get past those aspects and find a car that handles really quite well, and with the standard traction control, is safe and progressive. But it’s inside where the real story is. Despite a build quality that is so-so, the Territory reeks of innovative design. Perhaps nothing is a genuine breakthrough, but all in the one car at this price, the package is superb. This sorta stuff always reads really boringly but when the rearmost seat row folds absolutely flat, there’s no trade-off in heaving an occasional seating facility for seven. When the second row of seats also folds flat in a jiffy, and when erected can be slid back and forth on tracks, suddenly this is starting to be a damn useful car. Then when the top-most section of the rear hatch lifts separately (no, not just the glass but the frame as well), well, practicality and real-world positives start to flow.

And, unlike plenty of high-floor SUVs, the Territory has a decent cargo volume available in the back. This has always been a sore point for me about SUVs – often they look huge but because of their high floor, or narrow distance between intrusive wheel arches, the actual load capacity can be less than a medium-sized hatchback. But the Territory really is big in the back.

The Territory has storage compartments and expanding cupholders everywhere. I don’t get hugely excited by cupholders but in the real world of families and long trips and kids, a car that caters for these needs scores highly. In fact, from the child restraint anchorages positioned close on the seatbacks to the red tags that clearly show when a seat is not locked into place, the Territory shows excellent, thoughtful industrial design. It’s a car that was specifically designed to appeal to Australian families leaning towards an SUV, reducing as far as possible the compromises inherent in the package size and shape and taking advantage of the opportunities offered.

And the Mitsubishi 380? Unlike the very first 2.6-litre Magna, which offered a contemporary breakthrough combination of space and fuel economy, or the later V6 Magnas which had more sophisticated suspension and far better NVH than other local offerings, the 380 has nothing new. Literally, the entire mechanical package – engine, body and suspension – could have been offered five years ago... (Unarguably, the only technological aspects of the car which are right up to the minute are the Bosch engine management system and Bosch ABS.)

The interior design? Well, that could have been offered not 5 years ago but instead 15 years ago. Oh sure, Mitsubishi wouldn’t have been serving up an in-dash MP3 stacker in 1991, but in instrumentation, space, style and comfort, the 380 breaks no new ground. In fact, in some specifics like steering that isn’t adjustable for reach, a rear seat that doesn’t fold, rear vents that can’t be switched off, and a tiny boot opening, a 10 year old Falcon is superior. The 380 has no huge breakthroughs – in performance, in NVH, in fuel economy, in anything.

In fact, as an alleged new-age family car, it has nothing much new to offer.

Yes, the 380 handles very well – or at least the LS we had with optional sports suspension does. But when can you exploit that? In the first day of driving the 380 around the city, I deemed the handling unremarkable. All right, it certainly wasn’t lousy, and the traction control worked very well in cornering hard in urban conditions, but so what? It was only on the darkest and dirtiest of back roads (in one case, literally darkest – the car has great headlights), being driven in a way that would immediately result in the driver losing his license if sighted by a policeman, that the 380 showed the depth of its chassis design and development. Fantastic brakes – 160 km/h to nought, time after time – and handling that is precise yet forgiving, the car feeling absolutely planted even in tricky conditions.

And the engine! Especially in the context of its near ancient mechanical specs (Mitsi like to call it all-new but in the basics it’s anything but), the engine performs very well. Even with the 5-speed auto of the test car, the 380 is a strong, willing and effective workhorse. But of course, with Falcon or Commodore performance and basically Commodore or Falcon weight, you get just what you’d expect – Falcon or Commodore fuel economy. (To do better you need an engine with real technology – the Honda Accord V6 is a great example. Similar performance but fuel economy – especially on a trip – which is far superior to the 380.)

The Ford Territory’s focus is abundantly clear: it’s designed for typical Australian families. From its versatile interior to its soccer-Mum looks, from its availability in RWD and AWD to its lack of a low-range mud-grubbing gear ratio, Ford knew where they were going and have achieved success doing it.

And the 380’s targeted buyer? Try to imagine this person:

Someone who loves driving very fast, in fact often at speeds illegal anywhere in Australia but the Northern Territory. Someone who doesn’t care if a car is front or rear-wheel drive. Someone who needs a largish car with lots of rear space. Someone who isn’t much concerned by fuel economy and wants strong performance. Someone without any existing tribal loyalty to Ford or Holden. Someone who is undaunted by the demonstrable appalling resale of the 380’s predecessor.

I guess that someone exists, but by golly, there can’t be many of them...

Personally, the Territory is not my idea of a family car. Even with its undoubted practicality and on-road poise, its city fuel economy deep into the Fifteens (in litres/100 km) and unwieldy size seem overkill. But I can sure see why others like it – and buy it. The 380? If it had stability control and six airbags (incredibly, both are not offered on any models), if it had the fuel economy advantage that would have potentially come from a variable valve MIVEC engine or the fuel economy benefit that would have definitely come from (gasp!) a diesel turbo engine, I’d consider it. (But I’d still hate the stupid boot design and the dash which looks stylistically forced.)

The Territory has plenty of development potential left – and that’s starting from a high base. A diesel turbo engine and an improvement in cabin and body build quality could help it find another whole market that would never have previously considered a locally-built Ford. The car is selling well and will continue to find plenty of satisfied buyers.

Mitsubishi see their 380 as a breakthrough car for family and fleet buyers in Australia, a car that will cement the currently precarious foundations underpinning the manufacturing plant in Adelaide.

I think they’re fooling themselves.

(The Mitsubishi 380 was supplied by the manufacturer and the Ford Territory was hired.)

[Fairlane]

Christ thats bloody harsh on the 380. What do they think there's zero market for such a car, what are they thinking. This car is clearly superior to the Camry and the current Commodore both which are bloody good sellers, but he still roast it because it doesnt have whizz bang fad features or because it doesnt have DOHC.

Bit short sighted I think.

[ltd]

Good article, seems objective enough in many ways, and does actually put some praise on the 380 (albeit not much). Still, different strokes for different blokes.

[gekko]

The Australian motoring press, for whatever reason, has decided that Mitsubishi is doomed to fail, and their attitude clouds any review.

I'm not saying the 380 is an outstanding car, but it doesn't deserve the negative "vibe" that motoring journalists tend to cast over it.

Sure, Mitsubishi made some mistakes, and is hampered by the poor financial position of it's parent company, but in terms of value, I think that the VRX 380 competes very well with an XR6 or a Commodore S.

Given a choice between the big three, if I wanted a car that handled well, drove well and was reasonably priced, I'd probably go for the VRX. Why? While I would love a XR6T, they're just a bit too hoonish and would make you a constant target (of both police and hoons). The VRX is just as good dynamically, about 80% as fast, and blends in nicely with everyday traffic.

Depends what you like, of course. Some people like to stand out like the proverbial

[EA2BA]

the 380 for styling though is hardly inspiring enough to make me want to go out and buy one, the front is dated, and the rear is way to square and boring. Compared to a BA the 380 looks like a model 2 years old.

[Bossxr8]

I agree with some of your comments, the 380 seems like it was made to match the BA and VY, which it came pretty close to doing, but since then the BF has moved the ball further forward and the 380 was already beaten before it was released. It really needed to advance the segment further like the original Magna did, but you are right in saying the 380 offers nothing new and has some glaring omissions from its spec list. Buyers seem to agree as no one is buying them. If sales don't pick up massively in the next 2-3 months its all over.
I'm surprised by the amount of base model 380's i've seen compared to VRX's. I've probably seen about 10 base models and only 2 VRX's. I think they were expecting the VRX to be a big seller but judging by the numbers on the road it has bombed.

[bathurst77]

At first he seems to slam the 380a nd accolade tehr territory ..but..reading deeper...
------------------
the 380 handles very well ... the 380 showed the depth of its chassis design and development. .... handling that is precise yet forgiving, the car feeling absolutely planted even in tricky conditions

Fantastic brakes – 160 km/h to nought, time after time

And the engine! the engine performs very well. Even with the 5-speed auto of the test car, the 380 is a strong, willing and effective workhorse
-------------
a build quality that is so-so
the Territory is not my idea of a family car..its city fuel economy ... and unwieldy size seem overkill, build quality is so-so

[RB30-POWER]

I agree with some points from JE but not all.

I can see where he comes from though, the 380 sets no new ground, it arguably looks worse then the older Magna and doesn't offer and breakthroughs. For power, fuel consumption, safety, driveline layout (FWD) etc...

For a company thats on the edge, surely you would try and go all out.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by RB30-POWER

For a company thats on the edge, surely you would try and go all out.

They didn't have that much money to work with in development.
Besides Mitsubishi stated themselves that they reckon the factory will be closed in 4 years (this was stated early last year).

[LUXO_8]

i cant believe mistubishi neglected things like folding rear seat and reach adjustable steering.... these were standard features in an EA....

[Iphido]

Mitsubishi Oz didn't have a choice. All these things were decided long long ago in Japan or the USA..

The fixed what they could. Handling, brakes, engine. With the very little money they had. Then they tried to improved manufacturing techniques and costs.

The 380 was always going to be a half baked car.

Sad really, there was talk of awd being standard on all bar the pleb model, more power, a long wheel base model with many improvements and the basic SWB also gaining many improvements. Even turbo/Mivec varients. But they were all cut..

Its a another avalon.

This against the most awesome aussie cars in a long time. BF being the apex of a already wonderful car and a all new VE commo just on the horizon. The 380 falls down on features, on price, on resale, on quality, on image, on brand, on so many levels. They got many of the basics right, but then again the previous magna got nearly everything right (towards the end) but still fell over in saving the companys future.

There will eventually only be two manufacturers in Australia. Only question is who gets squeezed.

[The Taipan]

Originally Posted by gekko

The Australian motoring press, for whatever reason, has decided that Mitsubishi is doomed to fail, and their attitude clouds any review.

I'm not saying the 380 is an outstanding car, but it doesn't deserve the negative "vibe" that motoring journalists tend to cast over it.

Sure, Mitsubishi made some mistakes, and is hampered by the poor financial position of it's parent company, but in terms of value, I think that the VRX 380 competes very well with an XR6 or a Commodore S.

Given a choice between the big three, if I wanted a car that handled well, drove well and was reasonably priced, I'd probably go for the VRX. Why? While I would love a XR6T, they're just a bit too hoonish and would make you a constant target (of both police and hoons). The VRX is just as good dynamically, about 80% as fast, and blends in nicely with everyday traffic.

Depends what you like, of course. Some people like to stand out like the proverbial

If the "Hoon" factor on the turbo is the only thing holding you back, take the turbo badges off... by brother-in-law did, works for him. He gets to select when he wants to hoon, doesn't attract the same level of attention (unless the BOV gets too loud!).

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by Iphido

There will eventually only be two manufacturers in Australia. Only question is who gets squeezed.

The future of car manufacturing downunder is contingent on export. Unless the large car segment really wakes up downunder, there simply won't be enough volume to sustain much of a car industry down here. Lets face it, the manufacturers here have committed to building large cars here, those large cars better sell.

Toyota & Holden have reasonable export businesses. Ford is good at exporting engineering expertise, with the recent Indian Fiesta project, but tariff cuts, changing consumer preferences and a shrinking large segment won't be fun to launch a new Falcon into.

I hope the VE awakens the segment. It's a good thing for Ford, considering a good handful of Commodore buyers do cross shop between the two products.

[Steffo]

Mitsubishi 380 failed before it was even released if you ask me. It is a step backward from the Magna it replaced. It's ugly, the interior is very ugly, it's not very quick, and it won't out-handle an old Magna. The build quality is the same, and it costs more. They haven't acheived anything.

American cars rebadged for Australia fail. Fact of life. Look at the Avalon for proof. Over the years, Australian cars have become more European in the way they behave on the road. Back in the day, in the 60s, they were mainly re-badged US stuff (Falcon), and Holden weren't too different to Ford. After the GT-HO and Torana GTR saga, they started to get with the handling focus... and then the 80s was a period of... well... yeah, and now they're back on their game.

380 is going to fail. Falcon and Commodore buyers won't buy one, period. And everyone else will buy a Camry instead, its cheaper, far, far, far, far, far, far, FAR more reliable....

Farewell to Mitsubishi Australia has already begun. I just hope someone else starts building cars there to replace them, better cars then they were building. DC making some 300C's wouldn't hurt, but unfortunately, it does not seem likely.

[SUVshopper]

This forum is great unlike the "aussiemagna" forum. Over there, any threads on the 380 poor sales are promptly closed off by the moderators !

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Mitsubishi 380 failed before it was even released if you ask me. It is a step backward from the Magna it replaced. It's ugly, the interior is very ugly, it's not very quick, and it won't out-handle an old Magna. The build quality is the same, and it costs more. They haven't acheived anything.

Have you driven one?

I wouldn't consider the 380 manual's tested 0-100km/h 7.3s as being slow and frankly the handling & ride is more than good.

Yes, I have driven one - arguably I'd say it's the best Aussie car for refinement at the moment.

[chevypower]

i havent driven the 380 yet, but I believe most people on here seem to be exagerating, and I get the impression it's more about people's closed mindedness than about how good or bad the car actually is - People on a Ford forum bagging out a Mitsubishi! Surprise, surprise... I will drive one then make my mind up, even if it is front wheel drive and doesnt have split fold rear seats.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Iphido

There will eventually only be two manufacturers in Australia. Only question is who gets squeezed.

I don't see Toyota leaving in a hurry. In fact, It will probably buy Holden at the rate its going.... :

[Dave_au]

As for the poor 380, it's all really a bit sad at the end of the day. The TJ magna was a very honest car, and back in 2000-1, the Sports/VRX 163kw, 317nm 3.5L v6 was probably one of the best engines (and probably the best 6) in an Australian built car.

The TL and TW Magna was the TJ update MMAL probably never wanted in the first place, everyone knew, especially after AU, just what direction car styling in Australia was going - although the VRX model was more acceptable at least with the colour coded head lights.

As for the 380, the overtly negative (and usually contradictory press - don't forget, the 380 has won awards) press and doomsdayers are not doing the car much justice.

Even sadder is what MMAL could/would build if the 380 does/did well. Mitsubishi has a new Invecs 3 6 speed tiptronic auto, the 3.8 probably would go DOHC, the AWD would return, and their would probably be a turbo awd ralliart 380.....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Lagom

Have you driven one?

I wouldn't consider the 380 manual's tested 0-100km/h 7.3s as being slow and frankly the handling & ride is more than good.

Yes, I have driven one - arguably I'd say it's the best Aussie car for refinement at the moment.

But where do they go from there, they have no sports model for people who want something faster. With Ford you can go from the XT up to a Turbo, XR8, FPV and with Holden you can go up to an SS, HSV etc. Where can you go if you want a faster 380?

[NZ]

and to thing they were going to have a high and a low output engine, but opted to use the high ouput one only.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Lagom

Have you driven one?

I wouldn't consider the 380 manual's tested 0-100km/h 7.3s as being slow and frankly the handling & ride is more than good.
.

While that time isn't too shabby, MOTOR recorded a 0-100 time of 7.23 seconds for a BA manual XT Falcon in 2002 (thats with the old 182kw output). I think the point Steffo is making is that the 380 has still broken no new ground. They needed a special car to take it to Falcon/Commodore and Camry and they delivered something 'good' but not groundbreaking like it needed to be.

As for handling it can be as good as it wants but I know I would never buy another FWD car. I much prefer RWD or AWD.

[Strapper]

The Kiwi journo's rate the 380 OK. My Terri is fine, but I want my M5 back!!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Lagom

Toyota & Holden have reasonable export businesses. Ford is good at exporting engineering expertise, with the recent Indian Fiesta project, but tariff cuts, changing consumer preferences and a shrinking large segment won't be fun to launch a new Falcon into.

You forgot the terri is getting exported to South Africa not as much as the other two but that's quite good. Hopefully it takes off over there as it's the most profitable car Ford Oz has.

Originally Posted by Dave_au

I don't see Toyota leaving in a hurry. In fact, It will probably buy Holden at the rate its going.... :

Toyota could by GM and have enough left over to buy Ford as well.

[Iphido]

Its not about total wealth its about rationalisation. If its cheaper to build cars in the UAE or China than Australia and cheaper to build a new factory than retool and refit here then it would be closed very quickly.

There is a great deal of excess capacity around the world. Ford and holden have products that arent or can't be built anywhere else, Toyota does not. Lucky for toyota they are making great money. But things change. Remember when GM and Ford were wallowing in massive profits?

I can see mitsubishi scaling back its manufacturing to more or less knock down kits and Australiasating overseas products. They aren't out yet, and depending on what toyota does with the new camry (4 cylinder only) they might still have a niche.