Chevrolet Camaro June 2018. 5 Years Sooner Than Planned.

[commodorenutt]

Bear in mind the platform also underpins the VE, so most of the mechanical componentry isn't that difficult to source in RHD form, or adapt, with a lot of it being readily available. This will reduce costs for HSV compared to the aftermarket outfits that have been doing them for some time.

But I still see it as a Tickford Mustang all over again, and it's unlikely that a desireable spec model will be under $100K.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

Bear in mind the platform also underpins the VE, so most of the mechanical componentry isn't that difficult to source in RHD form, or adapt, with a lot of it being readily available. This will reduce costs for HSV compared to the aftermarket outfits that have been doing them for some time.

But I still see it as a Tickford Mustang all over again, and it's unlikely that a desireable spec model will be under $100K.

This is the non VE platform ( the Alpha Platform and NOT the Zeta platform ) though.

[FG50T]

I really want a ZL1 1LE. If it comes here for anything less than a GTS-R price I'm in.

0-100 3.5 secs
124-127mph 1/4 mile trap speed
7:16 Nurburgring - quicker than Ferrari 488 and Enzo, GT2 RS (997.2), GT3 (991.2), R35 GT-R.

[lra]

For the $$$$$ they are going to asking for a converted or factory RHD, I would prefer one of these...
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/res...2.%29&limit=12
Better looking, badge snobbery, and doesn't scream "Look at me, I'm a w**k*r"

[DFB FGXR6]

Its going to be interesting to see whether the GM faithful will go for a converted Camaro, especially considering the expected inflated price.

The comparison to the Tickford Mustang's is flawed. The sales of those cars were not only limited by the high price but also the fact that they were only sold through a small number of FTE specific dealers. You also need to consider that at the time, there was still locally produced V8 powered models in showrooms. It was later observed that if a potential customer interested in a Mustang found they couldn't order one from a particular dealer, and this was especially applicable in country areas, the salesman would happily sell them an XR8 instead. Same applied to the T-Series.

For the Camaro, there is no longer any other option sitting in the same showroom vying for the same type of buyer so its sales potential could better than expected.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, how the hell is it cheating, they aren't trying to pass it off as a factory RHD or anything else, the people who buy them will know full well what they are buying and if they don't mind dropping their hard earned on it, who are you to question it.
As Iggle Piggle said, there are companies currently doing exactly what HSV are suggesting and I haven't read any horror stories to date.
Would I buy one, no, not my thing, but I wouldn't throw my toys out of the cot because HSV are doing it and some Holden fan may buy it.

Sounds like sour grapes to me!

Here we go again .I can't believe you sometimes . IT'S CHEATING, pure and simple , all smoke and mirrors just like they're trying to sell a "Commodore" under the well earned reputation of a real Commodore.
Talking about sour grapes cobber. I wonder who is expressing that .While we're at it , why would any prospective buyers give a hoot for my opinion anyway but I can still express it if I want thankyou very much .

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Here we go again .I can't believe you sometimes . IT'S CHEATING, pure and simple , all smoke and mirrors just like they're trying to sell a "Commodore" under the well earned reputation of a real Commodore.
Talking about sour grapes cobber. I wonder who is expressing that .While we're at it , why would any prospective buyers give a hoot for my opinion anyway but I can still express it if I want thankyou very much .

Its not bloody cheating, the Commodore replacement has nothing to do with it and it's either sour grapes or you're just prone to carrying on like a 12 year old out to win some brownie points from the faithful which you don't seem to have achieved with your rants so if i were you i'd go with sour grapes and retain some form of credibility while you can.
Honestly, this forum contains many members who whilst not Holden fans, appreciate what Holden have been able to achieve over the decades, I understand you're loyalty to the brand, but when you say things like Holden are cheating you make people wonder if its school holidays time again.

[chrisandsharon]

Geezuz talk about taking Roddys comments to the extreme - settle down.
I can see where Roddy is coming from. End of the day GM have been shocked at how successful the Mustang has been. Any business on the planet would like a piece of the Mustang pie. They’ve missed the boat but at least they’ve come on board and are supplying the vehicles to the Walkinshaw Group at a discounted price. A lot of Aussies will be back at work doing what they do best. Would I buy one - no. For me it’s bang for buck and you can get a lot of American V8 that’s factory right hand drive in the Mustang product. Ford did it the right way (pardon the pun) and the gamble paid off big time.
I’d love to see em on the road, but at $80-90000 I can’t justify that sort of coin knowing a lot of the cost is in the conversion.

[MethodX]

What are the actual "rules" if its so called cheating?
If they deliver a car to marker that people want... then who cares how its done...

[MrZ]

This "story" sounds like complete rubbish to me. Nobody is going to pay a $30k premium over a Mustang for a Camaro. They might sell a few hundred a year to die hard GM fans or those who want to be different, but it sounds like a completely waste of money/resources to me.

[chrisandsharon]

You’ve got to give it to the guys at Walkinshaw Group though.
They’ve seen a big opportunity and have jumped on it. Creates Aussie jobs and the ones that want to spend their money on a Camaro can. There would have been a lot of hard work going on behind the scene to make this happen. GM did not have to come to the table on this, if you look at it like that a conversion Camaro is better than nothing. Cars are our lifestyle and I think there will be plenty of diehards lined up. It will be a drop in the ocean compared to Stang sales but at least we’ll be seeing more American muscle on our roads.
I’m a 6 man anyway - no Stang or Camaro for me. I’d be putting the money into an M2 for the asking price of the Yanky.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Its not bloody cheating, the Commodore replacement has nothing to do with it and it's either sour grapes or you're just prone to carrying on like a 12 year old out to win some brownie points from the faithful which you don't seem to have achieved with your rants so if i were you i'd go with sour grapes and retain some form of credibility while you can.
Honestly, this forum contains many members who whilst not Holden fans, appreciate what Holden have been able to achieve over the decades, I understand you're loyalty to the brand, but when you say things like Holden are cheating you make people wonder if its school holidays time again.

You really have it in for me don't you ..Yes ,I'm loyal to Ford , I agree with you on that but if you read without prejudice some Holden topics I've posted on you'll see I have regularly appreciated the Red Lion crew for some great cars..I just find it hard to call a LHD to RHD premium priced Camaro ( all be it extremely well built via HSV ) , the real deal for international RHD markets. General Motors (US) have stuffed up after watching Europe , Australia ,Africa , etc gobble up both LHD and RHD Mustangs and now they are trying to get in on the action via the back door here at least.
If they were genuine they'd accelerate the global Camaro as soon as possible but they're doing it this way.
Re the Commodore naming of the new car , I suggest you look closer because many loyal Holden fans and Commodore owners have said that they believe it's a big mistake. Should have called it something else and let the Commodore name rest. RANT FINISHED.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

You really have it in for me don't you ..Yes ,I'm loyal to Ford , I agree with you on that but if you read without prejudice some Holden topics I've posted on you'll see I have regularly appreciated the Red Lion crew for some great cars..I just find it hard to call a LHD to RHD premium priced Camaro ( all be it extremely well built via HSV ) , the real deal for international RHD markets. General Motors (US) have stuffed up after watching Europe , Australia ,Africa , etc gobble up both LHD and RHD Mustangs and now they are trying to get in on the action via the back door here at least.
If they were genuine they'd accelerate the global Camaro as soon as possible but they're doing it this way.
Re the Commodore naming of the new car , I suggest you look closer because many loyal Holden fans and Commodore owners have said that they believe it's a big mistake. Should have called it something else and let the Commodore name rest. RANT FINISHED.

No roddy, I don't have it in for you at all, I just think sometimes the stuff you suggest sounds like that of a newbie 12 yr old who's hoping that bagging the red team with childish comments like 'cheating' will hold you in good stead with the faithful.
Being a Ford Forum, if what you suggest had any level of credibility, people would be lining up to agree with you which apart from the user who thinks I've taken your post out of context, there isn't any.
Kinda says something about your notion i'd have thought.
Then when anyone dares to suggest you're talking ****, you go off on a rant about why you're right and everyone else is wrong.
And apart from that, 9 times out of ten you go off on a tangent with some utube clip which is barely relevant or introduce some other angle to support your case as with the Commodore stuff in a thread about Camaro's.
If you don't like what I write you can ignore me or alert a Mod but I call a spade a spade and i make no apologise for it.
It wouldn't matter who wrote it.

[chrisandsharon]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vesper Martini]

Thing is its not Built on a RHD Platform so conversion is the only answer, are all the Previous Gen Mustang owners that have had conversions considered cheats?

Good on HSV I say, If they don't have a crack with this car they may as well close up shop.

It is going to be expensive, but People were already paying lots for HSV anyway.

The issue I see is that its a big 2 door. remember the returning Monaro didn't sell that well

Yes I know same could be said for Mustang, But I think it has a better following than Camaro. and being affordable does help.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, how the hell is it cheating, they aren't trying to pass it off as a factory RHD or anything else,............

Don't bet on it. That's a journo's description of events and knowing Holden's modus operandi I'm willing to bet that no future advertisements to the masses will give any specific indication it's a RHD conversion and the high price is due to HSV enhancements !!!!

Either way you'd have to be a diehard to buy one at an inflated price, which will tank when the factory RHD arrives. Basically the same as those that brought converted Mustangs that are now worth only a fraction of their cost given the release of the factory RHD.

[Vesper Martini]

But there is no Factory RHD on the way.

[Wretched]

So we're arguing about having another RWD V8 coupe on the market? Really?

Yes GM missed the boat with RHD for camaro, but hey Ford only did it with the 2015 model Mustang onwards, so not exactly a pioneer.
It is them at least offering the Camaro here, who knows for the next one.
At least it is employing people, right?

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Thing is its not Built on a RHD Platform so conversion is the only answer, are all the Previous Gen Mustang owners that have had conversions considered cheats?

Good on HSV I say, If they don't have a crack with this car they may as well close up shop.

It is going to be expensive, but People were already paying lots for HSV anyway.

The issue I see is that its a big 2 door. remember the returning Monaro didn't sell that well

Yes I know same could be said for Mustang, But I think it has a better following than Camaro. and being affordable does help.

When the Monaro came out dual cabs weren't luxury family cars and Mercedes was an exclusive brand. Things have changed...there's a lot more people wealthier under the middle age adult bracket too.

Edit: Maybe not "wealthier" but rather able to afford more expensive things.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

No roddy, I don't have it in for you at all, I just think sometimes the stuff you suggest sounds like that of a newbie 12 yr old who's hoping that bagging the red team with childish comments like 'cheating' will hold you in good stead with the faithful.
Being a Ford Forum, if what you suggest had any level of credibility, people would be lining up to agree with you which apart from the user who thinks I've taken your post out of context, there isn't any.
Kinda says something about your notion i'd have thought.
Then when anyone dares to suggest you're talking ****, you go off on a rant about why you're right and everyone else is wrong.
And apart from that, 9 times out of ten you go off on a tangent with some utube clip which is barely relevant or introduce some other angle to support your case as with the Commodore stuff in a thread about Camaro's.
If you don't like what I write you can ignore me or alert a Mod but I call a spade a spade and i make no apologise for it.
It wouldn't matter who wrote it.

Who's ranting now..
and yes , you do have it in for me . Go and read recent posts on the R.I.P Goodbye old foe thread and a few others and tell me my comments are bagging Holden, far from it . You don't value anything I say , guess what it goes both ways.

[Trump]

Chill pill kids, this isn't a life and death issue.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Trump

Chill pill kids, this isn't a life and death issue.

G'day , That's probably a good idea but getting stuck into people for the way they write posts is not appreciated and welcomed .
Last time I looked our AFF moderators do that , and not other AFF'ers regardless on what they think . For the record I've not yet been queried or rebuked by our moderators for my content , only had a topic relocated to proper destination one time.
Probably best if BENT 8 and I just ignore each other's posts and keep our opinions to ourselves on each others virtues or faults in the future.
Problem solved .

[Trump]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day , That's probably a good idea but getting stuck into people for the way they write posts is not appreciated and welcomed .
Last time I looked our AFF moderators do that , and not other AFF'ers regardless on what they think . For the record I've not yet been queried or rebuked by our moderators for my content , only had a topic relocated to proper destination one time.
Probably best if BENT 8 and I just ignore each other's posts and keep our opinions to ourselves on each others virtues or faults in the future.
Problem solved .

Roddy, he wasn't getting stuck into you, he was countering your argument; there is a difference.

[Beastie]

Differing opinions are ok, so long as they are about the topic.

Stay on topic folks and all is well.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by Beastie

Differing opinions are ok, so long as they are about the topic.

Stay on topic folks and all is well.

Awwww c'mon ... was going to put a good reply to the Beavis and Butthead pic earlier.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Awwww c'mon ... was going to put a good reply to the Beavis and Butthead pic earlier.

He-he...he, he, he-he

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Trump

Roddy, he wasn't getting stuck into you, he was countering your argument; there is a difference.

I beg to differ , great respect to you but my argument on Holden with the conversion to RHD by HSV and the Commodore naming to Insignia etc was met also with his complaints regarding my posts style. My posts or anybody else's don't need to be handled that way. Re read his last couple of replies to me and see what I mean.
Re this topic. My opinions , won't make the slightest scrap of difference to anyone else keen to buy a converted RHD next year. Good luck to them and I hope they end up with a great car . Just not how i think (In my humble opinion) GM should have been doing it . He used those opinions to have a go at me if you read his replies properly. Otherwise why did he say I rant ,act like 12 year old , contaminate my posts with videos , accuse me of other stuff etc. He and others are entitled to their opinions about Camaro conversion , just so long as they only counter the opinion and not get personal to the writer . That applies across the board .

Something else I forgot to add previously . IF Ford had done this by selling a LHD Mustang conversion as a mainstream car via FPV/ Prodrive or called something else a Falcon I'd have exactly the same opinion of them . It's not because I hate Holdens because I don't. They built some great cars as I have often acknowledged . I'll say no more okay BENT 8 on this subject , rest easy.

[jpd80]

Another 629 Mustangs sold in October, the tally since Jan 2016 is now over 14,000.

I'm sure that Holden will find plenty of buyers for the Camaro but in the meantime,
Ford has the march with a factory RHD car that sells and makes them lots of money.

And by the time the converted Camaros show up we will be onto our first 2018 Mustangs
with lots of nice upgrades over the current model...

FYI, before conversion, the SS 1LE is USD $44K or around AUS$65K - the price of a RHD Mustang...
You guys do the math.....I think there will be a huge perception gap between price and delivered vehicle.
Which ever way Holden goes, ZL1 or SS 1LE, the price delivered will slow up the number of interested buyers.

[Mercury Bullet]

All i can add is what are/were GM (USA) thinking?

It's one thing that they were beaten to the punch by Ford, but when Ford announced the rhd stang, they continued to sit on their hands.

As far as I'm aware GM still to this day have no plans for any rhd performance car.

I certainly wouldn't call a conversion cheating but i do think it's a second best option at an enormous cost. I can buy a lot of cases of grange for 30 grand.

[jpd80]

The issue with a post production RHD conversion is that the costs pile up and up.
Not only has Holden a much smaller market than Mustang's 25 RHD markets but
it also has to amortize conversion and crash test costs across a much lower production plan.
(and that's why 500 Mustangs sold in the early 2000s cost $80K a piece..)

I wish Holden and HSV all the best with this but they sure do have the job in front of them,
Hopefully GMNA can help out by engineering the RHD parts to smooth the way with suppliers...