The Thailand Special Thread - New Developments/News

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Surely would just go up a wheel size to put it in something with 126 load rating, surely easier to add a wheel size to the platform than a new rear axle and body mods to cover up duallies.

Well the front tyres will probably stay the same at 255/70/16 or maybe 17". I doubt they'll go bigger diameter than that, because this thing will be commercial focused and will need heavier duty rims and tyres. Only heavy duty trucks run 17"+ diameter.

Now the back tyres won't be any different size unless they run more of them.
Interestingly 255/70/16 are similar diameter to 205/85/16, the latter is a common light truck tyre size.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ben73

$10 they put the 2L bi turbo engine in it.

Odds on favorite for sure, and I'm going to shout from the rooftops about how lame that is, I don't think there's money in the engineering budget to play different engines, especially when they're doing an experimental project moving it into a different category (light truck).

However, it beats the Isuzu N series, even with the bigger 5.2L diesel 4 cylinder they have in one of them (114kw/419nm or something lame).

[FlipXW]

Surely they put a version on the V6 ecoboost in it. Its already in the raptor so engineering shouldn’t be a problem and its proven to handle big weights in F150 applications.

[Warrenk]

In the US the 2.7ltr ecoboost is already an option in the Ranger.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Odds on favorite for sure, and I'm going to shout from the rooftops about how lame that is, I don't think there's money in the engineering budget to play different engines, especially when they're doing an experimental project moving it into a different category (light truck).

However, it beats the Isuzu N series, even with the bigger 5.2L diesel 4 cylinder they have in one of them (114kw/419nm or something lame).

True, but they do have a very good V6 diesel engine available. I guess there’s a lot more bi tubro engines sitting in the warehouse gathering dust. That’s probably the reason why the “ big tough off-road Termor” comes with the soft engine only.

[XR Martin]

Going by the spy pics I was wrong about dually, but correct regarding what load rating the tyres will be.
275/70R18s 125 rating.

[XR Martin]

BTW I think this is a massive coup by Ford.
Basically will kill off the LC79.
Will also kill off the aftermarket Landcruiser 200/300 dual cab conversions.
They'll still be a market for F150 and Silverado as their more lifestyle based, not hardcore work vehicles.

The only thing that may let Ford down is reliability.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Basically will kill off the LC79.
.

Haha, I doubt it.

If the $80k+ price tag can't kill it then nothing will.... Mind you I think the 79 crowd will be less forgiving of the lack of v8 compared to the 300 crowd so perhaps there is a chink in the armour.

[MITCHAY]

It will be interesting to see how a Ranger SD will go. It might be a gap they can exploit in price.

[XR Martin]

70 series has always been limited by supply, and no more V8s can be ordered.
So basically you're left with a 500nm 4cyl TD in a 40yo vehicle with solid front axle and mismatched track widths, as well as a 6 month+ wait and zero star safety.

Or a SD Ranger which has a greater payload, towing and GCM.

[Franco Cozzo]

Curious to see one on the hoist, Fullboost did an VDJ79 and a Ranger Raptor side by side on the hoist, and the Ranger Raptor made the VDJ79 look like it was slapped together with paper maccas straws,

Maybe the Ranger Raptor and the Ranger Super Duty are similarly beefed up,

Curious to see Isuzu NPR/Hino 300 vs Ranger Super Duty as well, they're both 4500kg-5500kg GVM light trucks.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

BTW I think this is a massive coup by Ford.
Basically will kill off the LC79.
Will also kill off the aftermarket Landcruiser 200/300 dual cab conversions.
They'll still be a market for F150 and Silverado as their more lifestyle based, not hardcore work vehicles.

The only thing that may let Ford down is reliability.

If the SD Ranger comes with V8 then you might be correct, otherwise something tells me that is not going to happen. The LC79 might experience a dip in sales but Toyota still has its loyal customer base from rural Australia.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Itsme

If the SD Ranger comes with V8 then you might be correct, otherwise something tells me that is not going to happen. The LC79 might experience a dip in sales but Toyota still has its loyal customer base from rural Australia.

You could paint a Bull turd Desert Tan and put a Land Cruiser badge on it... There would still be a line out the door.. Look at new Prado... Basically carryover engine, 250kg+ heavier, crappy boot/3rd row packaging thanks to the 48v system and they will still line up. Nothing Ford can do to win them over...

Done right, SD may win over those who only buy LC/Light trucks because they have no other real choice in the market until now. This, if course, is if Ford doesnt snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and curse it with the Bi Turbo as the only engine choice..

With the V6 Diesel, wonder if theres room to wick it up a but with some more KW/NM...

[XR Martin]

Keep in mind the engines in the US Super Dutys are de-rated compared to the standard models.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

You could paint a Bull turd Desert Tan and put a Land Cruiser badge on it... There would still be a line out the door.. Look at new Prado... Basically carryover engine, 250kg+ heavier, crappy boot/3rd row packaging thanks to the 48v system and they will still line up. Nothing Ford can do to win them over...

Done right, SD may win over those who only buy LC/Light trucks because they have no other real choice in the market until now. This, if course, is if Ford doesnt snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and curse it with the Bi Turbo as the only engine choice..

With the V6 Diesel, wonder if theres room to wick it up a but with some more KW/NM...

Well true that prob is the case re the Toy devotee’s but they have good enough reason to this day.
They may not be the reliable beast of old but new tech has been the challenge for every company.
I was just with one of my large well known to consumers 4x4 Specialist mob that buy near on every new model release for R&D for their products on Friday.
They have a workshop not for retail work but just for their work.
I was looking over the new Prado they have had for sometime having done some off road testing and putting on more of their product.
I asked what they think and compared to their Everest.
To them both good vehicles but the Toy to them is the better product in quality and build.
I take this companies pov seriously for they don’t talk BS they say it how it is for they have no favourite they just want to seek product and shed load of it here and Export.
They know every brands strengths and weakness down to the Chinese dual cabs and yanky pick ups they also have as test vehicles.


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[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

You could paint a Bull turd Desert Tan and put a Land Cruiser badge on it... There would still be a line out the door.. Look at new Prado... Basically carryover engine, 250kg+ heavier, crappy boot/3rd row packaging thanks to the 48v system and they will still line up. Nothing Ford can do to win them over...

Done right, SD may win over those who only buy LC/Light trucks because they have no other real choice in the market until now. This, if course, is if Ford doesnt snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and curse it with the Bi Turbo as the only engine choice..

With the V6 Diesel, wonder if theres room to wick it up a but with some more KW/NM...

There’s always going to be a fair portion of those rusted on buyers who will keep buying
Prado and Hilux regardless of what Ford or others offer, you won’t change them so don’t try..
But then there’s another group of buyers who are open to change, look at Toyota still offering
that same old chuffer 2.8 diesel and maybe go give Everest and Ranger a go, those are
the buyers that Ford is looking out for….Toyota won’t put a V6 diesel in Prado, not with
the l Landcruiser 300 sitting above it with a much higher price.

Hopefully Ford keeps chipping away with Ranger, Everest and SD Ranger…

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There’s always going to be a fair portion of those rusted on buyers who will keep buying
Prado and Hilux regardless of what Ford or others offer, you won’t change them so don’t try..
But then there’s another group of buyers who are open to change, look at Toyota still offering
that same old chuffer 2.8 diesel and maybe go give Everest and Ranger a go, those are
the buyers that Ford is looking out for….Toyota won’t put a V6 diesel in Prado, not with
the l Landcruiser 300 sitting above it with a much higher price.

Hopefully Ford keeps chipping away with Ranger, Everest and SD Ranger…

Until they get the Ford dealer after sale service and realise the error of their ways, lol.
Thats what Toyota bank on, they leave a void for the opposition to fill during model change, opposition accommodate them, expose themselves and at the first opportunity, those former swingers go back in search of that confidence they know they get from the supplier of that chuffer.
Nett result, another rusted on Toyota fan.
Rinse, repeat.
When you own 20% market share you can afford to loan some out, they nearly always return..

Many alternatives will take you out, Land Cruiser drives you home..
Catchy jingle

And they know it.

[FTE217]

hehe I chuckle at the chuffer Hilux/Prado comment for seriously, its just a portion of Toys offerings, thats the point in the big picture.
Our beloved Ford have commercials and do it the USA way well, the SD is the perfect example use and do what we do well in.
Sure Ranger is King per say but it won't last like Toy have reigned in that segment with a chuffer for its just common sense, they will recover sooner or later when and if they want to.
Sales diffs depending the months aren't night and day amaze's me chuffers do ok despite all the talk.
This was a interesting read that of all people my wife sent me the other day.
https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/finan...cle-statistics

Look at the stats !
I'm impressed by Mazda !
Range range throw in Hyundai.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Until they get the Ford dealer after sale service and realise the error of their ways, lol.
Thats what Toyota bank on, they leave a void for the opposition to fill during model change, opposition accommodate them, expose themselves and at the first opportunity, those former swingers go back in search of that confidence they know they get from the supplier of that chuffer.
Nett result, another rusted on Toyota fan.
Rinse, repeat.
When you own 20% market share you can afford to loan some out, they nearly always return..

Many alternatives will take you out, Land Cruiser drives you home..
Catchy jingle

And they know it.

100% When their reputation for reliability matches Toyota,s then they have the right to charge a premium for products

It will take time to shake off the "oh they all do that reputation" etc

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by PooDog

100% When their reputation for reliability matches Toyota,s then they have the right to charge a premium for products

It will take time to shake off the "oh they all do that reputation" etc

The only way to change old opinions is to keep selling newer vehicles like Everest and let buyers see how good they are.
If anything, Prado is the vehicle with the more premium pricing, especially starting at $72,000 but it’s good to see that
Toyota keeps challenging price perception, this will tell us if customers accept premium pricing increases - They should

And no matter what people say, it’s always dangerous to invite your competition to take sales
while your new product takes longer than expected, Thers no way that Toyota did that intentionally.

I remember when we had a similar situation when Toyota delayed 5 star rating on Hilux,
that was the moment when Ranger sales jumped well above Colorado and never looked back.
Whatever mistakes Ford make with customer sales and service, Thers no denying that
Ranger has more than matched Hilux sales in the past year or so and now Everest is rising
and yes that’s entirely due to no Prado there so if what people say is right, then Prado should
take back all of those lost sales and then some……it will be interesting how that actually affects Everest.
It is possible that both could end up selling well at the expense of something else…

[BENT_8]

Do people honestly think Toyota care about winning some war with a bit player like Ford, please.
In the absence of Holden/GM I get it that Ford and its loyal customers need something to compare itself to, but the feeling is not mutual.

You think Toyota left 2 of its mainstayers hanging by poor management, lol, they just directed customers who wanted something fresh to the 300 series..at a nice premium.
Remember the outcry towards Toyota holding back the EV fad, nek minnit, Toyota fill the no1 spot with a soft rider hybrid.
Nett result, no change at the top, 20% market share bubbling along....without Prado and a dinosaur Hilux.

Many V6 everest buyers just cant stretch to 300, or are lease queens, which is why theres so many on the used lots already.
Ranger/Everest looked fresh at a time when very few did in that bracket, now Prado is back and looks funky you think people will look sideways at what is now yesterdays news.
Toyota could have dropped the V6 in the Prado, they didnt because they know its absence keeps 300 ticking along whilst the rusted ons that cant afford one will accept that chuffer..lol
Add on the look at me funky crowd chasing the next fresh design.
They'll be back, not because Toyota need them too, because theres a weird prestige to owning that badge, moreso when its in an all new package.

We just picked up what is essentially a higher k demo Pajero Sport, yet the night before my Wife said are we doing the right thing.
I said what, its a newer car in every way than the 11yo Prado.
Yes, she said, but I always wanted a Prado and feel different driving it.

I dont get it, but many do and Toyota know it.

Ford may win the odd battle Toyota arent focussed on in that moment, but they'll never win that war, Toyota arent Holden/GM of yesteryear.

[lra]

Originally Posted by PooDog

100% When their reputation for reliability matches Toyota,s then they have the right to charge a premium for products

It will take time to shake off the "oh they all do that reputation" etc

A mate has one of the last V8 diesel Landcruisers, and was somewhat unhappy about the fuel consumption, about 12 > 14 L/100 unladen, on a trip, a lot more than his previous V8.
He mentioned it at a scheduled service, and the dealer knew the fix. A new set of injectors plus other bits and bobs. About a $6K retail fix, but under warranty, no problems.
Happy customer.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Until they get the Ford dealer after sale service and realise the error of their ways, lol.
Thats what Toyota bank on, they leave a void for the opposition to fill during model change, opposition accommodate them, expose themselves and at the first opportunity, those former swingers go back in search of that confidence they know they get from the supplier of that chuffer.
Nett result, another rusted on Toyota fan.
Rinse, repeat.
When you own 20% market share you can afford to loan some out, they nearly always return..

Many alternatives will take you out, Land Cruiser drives you home..
Catchy jingle

And they know it.

Bent
Not all Ford dealers offer poor service
Sunshine Ford on the Gc are excellent and always pro active

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kevino

Bent
Not all Ford dealers offer poor service
Sunshine Ford on the Gc are excellent and always pro active

Totally agreed, but as a paying customer often making the 2nd most expensive purchase after the roof over your head, you shouldnt have to search for that level of service.

There seems to be an undeserved arrogance that surrounds the brand in general that they are doing the consumer a favour in even hearing the complaint never mind solving it.
My feeling is that when you have a sales success like next gen Ranger/Everest, that attitude grows with it.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Do people honestly think Toyota care about winning some war with a bit player like Ford, please.
In the absence of Holden/GM I get it that Ford and its loyal customers need something to compare itself to, but the feeling is not mutual.

You think Toyota left 2 of its mainstayers hanging by poor management, lol, they just directed customers who wanted something fresh to the 300 series..at a nice premium.
Remember the outcry towards Toyota holding back the EV fad, nek minnit, Toyota fill the no1 spot with a soft rider hybrid.
Nett result, no change at the top, 20% market share bubbling along....without Prado and a dinosaur Hilux.

Many V6 everest buyers just cant stretch to 300, or are lease queens, which is why theres so many on the used lots already.
Ranger/Everest looked fresh at a time when very few did in that bracket, now Prado is back and looks funky you think people will look sideways at what is now yesterdays news.
Toyota could have dropped the V6 in the Prado, they didnt because they know its absence keeps 300 ticking along whilst the rusted ons that cant afford one will accept that chuffer..lol
Add on the look at me funky crowd chasing the next fresh design.
They'll be back, not because Toyota need them too, because theres a weird prestige to owning that badge, moreso when its in an all new package.

We just picked up what is essentially a higher k demo Pajero Sport, yet the night before my Wife said are we doing the right thing.
I said what, its a newer car in every way than the 11yo Prado.
Yes, she said, but I always wanted a Prado and feel different driving it.

I dont get it, but many do and Toyota know it.

Ford may win the odd battle Toyota arent focussed on in that moment, but they'll never win that war, Toyota arent Holden/GM of yesteryear.

One of your best bang on posts Bent !
You neglected one more important point.
Depreciation and resale.
Toy wins hands down and some.
My old 2009 chuffer in top nick still pulls great dollar for eg if I ever wanted to sell.


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[kevino]

I ve never come across that attitude with Sunshine Ford
We had a power shift Fiesta and the dealer really supported us and I don’t think we ever had time out when the Fiesta was being transmission updated it was always done with a loan car supplied
I even had a Mustang loan car for four days when Fiesta went in for annual service and they did a whole pile of warranty work we didn’t know about
The service there on
Ls Focus
Lt Focus
Lz Focus
2007 Fiesta
2012 Fiesta

All great never any issues

Still using them for my 22 Puma again never any issues

Mind you the only one with issues was the 2012 power shift Fiesta and as I said we were well supported with that car

In the future Puma which will be my last Ford will go and the association will cease

I have no interest in utes/ ladder chassis suvs / mustangs

Ford moved away from my buying tastes
Escape and Puma canned although funnily enough latest versions are sold in Nz which is controlled by Ford Aus but horrendously expensive

Maybe the Ford dealer issue is an SA thing

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by kevino

I ve never come across that attitude with Sunshine Ford
We had a power shift Fiesta and the dealer really supported us and I don’t think we ever had time out when the Fiesta was being transmission updated it was always done with a loan car supplied
I even had a Mustang loan car for four days when Fiesta went in for annual service and they did a whole pile of warranty work we didn’t know about
The service there on
Ls Focus
Lt Focus
Lz Focus
2007 Fiesta
2012 Fiesta

All great never any issues

Still using them for my 22 Puma again never any issues

Mind you the only one with issues was the 2012 power shift Fiesta and as I said we were well supported with that car

In the future Puma which will be my last Ford will go and the association will cease

I have no interest in utes/ ladder chassis suvs / mustangs

Ford moved away from my buying tastes
Escape and Puma canned although funnily enough latest versions are sold in Nz which is controlled by Ford Aus but horrendously expensive

Maybe the Ford dealer issue is an SA thing

Dealership service is extremely variable and is often influenced by location. In city areas with several dealers within somewhat close vicinity, there would be more focus put on customer experience due to competition. In country areas where it's a one, two, or three hour drive to the next dealer, well they know that many won't be doing that.

To be clear, this is not just a Ford thing. Just about every dealer in my country town has issues. The Kia/Nissan dealer is well known for ripping off or trying to rip off female customers, almost to the point of bullying/guilt tripping customers for not falling for their $150 wiper blades. I have heard these stories firsthand. I've also heard similar scenario's with the Mitsubishi/Suzuki dealer, even the Mazda dealer.

It's also a very high turnover rate in dealer service departments, be that the tech's or the service advisors. I've found this aspect the hardest to deal with because it limits the ability to build up a relationship.

I will also note that when it comes to Toyota, a large percentage of those who buy them, do so for the reliability reputation. I've found those to be very quiet when it comes to warranty repairs or reliability issues, they don't necessarily want to admit that perhaps their Toyota is not as reliable as expected.

But the main thing to remember here is that dealers are not owned by the car company, they are independent businesses that simply represent the brand. As such, there will always be a different culture and ethic from dealer to dealer, even if they share the same brand on the building. Sadly though, one bad egg will spoil the whole batch.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Dealership service is extremely variable and is often influenced by location. In city areas with several dealers within somewhat close vicinity, there would be more focus put on customer experience due to competition. In country areas where it's a one, two, or three hour drive to the next dealer, well they know that many won't be doing that.

To be clear, this is not just a Ford thing. Just about every dealer in my country town has issues. The Kia/Nissan dealer is well known for ripping off or trying to rip off female customers, almost to the point of bullying/guilt tripping customers for not falling for their $150 wiper blades. I have heard these stories firsthand. I've also heard similar scenario's with the Mitsubishi/Suzuki dealer, even the Mazda dealer.

It's also a very high turnover rate in dealer service departments, be that the tech's or the service advisors. I've found this aspect the hardest to deal with because it limits the ability to build up a relationship.

I will also note that when it comes to Toyota, a large percentage of those who buy them, do so for the reliability reputation. I've found those to be very quiet when it comes to warranty repairs or reliability issues, they don't necessarily want to admit that perhaps their Toyota is not as reliable as expected.

But the main thing to remember here is that dealers are not owned by the car company, they are independent businesses that simply represent the brand. As such, there will always be a different culture and ethic from dealer to dealer, even if they share the same brand on the building. Sadly though, one bad egg will spoil the whole batch.

Gold Coast population is 600000 odd
Only one Ford dealer
So their competition is in Brisbane closest dealer approx 65 kms away as well as one in Nnsw but only a small operator

Take your point on dealers overcharging female customers- standard practise isn’t it
I take my wife’s vw to an Indy so no bs and dumped the vw dealer who charge more than is reasonable
I also forewarn the ford dealer I ve just paid my rates water and insurance and have no cash available for upsell phone calls like a deoderiser through the air con systems etc

I don’t know too much about Toyota dealers only ever owned one a 72 Crown 2600 which was a lemon.

Had Hilux as a coy car - not impressed

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by lra

A mate has one of the last V8 diesel Landcruisers, and was somewhat unhappy about the fuel consumption, about 12 > 14 L/100 unladen, on a trip, a lot more than his previous V8.
He mentioned it at a scheduled service, and the dealer knew the fix. A new set of injectors plus other bits and bobs. About a $6K retail fix, but under warranty, no problems.
Happy customer.

If they did that it's more than $6k worth.