Commodore to get run flat tyres

[DanielXR8]

Looks like Holden intends to keep and grow its market share....

Dan

Commodore to get run flat tyres
Toby Hagon, drive.com.au, August 15, 2008



Holden is re-engineering the Commodore to give it the performance of a V6 and fuel economy of a four-cylinder.

Holden is looking at removing the spare tyre from the Commodore and instead fitting controversial run-flat tyres as part of a broader plan to improve fuel efficiency by more than 20 per cent and reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

General Motors Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss says the imminent move to tyres that can be driven on after a puncture is designed to reduce weight, helping the V6 Commodore the efficiency of a four-cylinder.

Reuss believes getting the basics of the Commodore design right is more important than relatively expensive additions such as a hybrid powertrain, which he is now hinting will not happen as early as 2010. This is in contrast to General Motors group vice president Nick Reilly, who said hybrid Commodores would arrive in “a couple of years”.

“There’s a lot of things we can do in the near term and a lot of things we can do in the further term … there’s a lot more to go (in terms of efficiency improvements),” says Reuss, citing everything from weight reduction to more efficient tyres, engine improvements and better aerodynamics.

“It would be really stupid to make a sequential decision around a hybrid in a Commodore before we have efficiency in the base architecture done. I’m talking about all the pieces to get an efficient platform.”

Reuss believes the fuel economy of a regular, petrol engine Commodore can be reduced by 20 per cent or more. He says today’s official average fuel consumption figure of 10.8 litres per 100km could drop to 8.5L/100km.

That would make the entry-level Commodore as efficient as many of today’s smaller, mid-sized four-cylinder cars. A Mazda 6 uses a claimed 8.4 litres of fuel per 100km while a Toyota Camry uses 9.9L/100km.

“We want to give what’s important to the customers, which is the operating efficiency of a small car in a large car.”

Key to the Commodore’s fuel efficiency and CO2 reductions – which Reuss cites as “a very high priority” - is stripping weight.

“If we have a mindset that we have to go after every gram the opportunity there is quite large,” says Reuss. “Mass begets mass, so the bigger the car is, the more massive the car is, the bigger the brakes are, the more you have to press the throttle. It just goes on and on.”

Reuss says the removal of a spare tyre (and jack, tools, etc) as a great way to save up to 16kg of weight.

“There’s plenty of things in the industry, like a Honda Odyssey mini van in the US, that uses a run-flat tyre,” says Reuss. “The technology is there, but we have to make sure the technology of a run-flat tyre is applicable to the car you’re putting it in.”

Reuss is acutely aware of the controversy surrounding cars fitted with run-flat tyres.

The pioneer of the technology locally, BMW, staunchly defends run-flat tyres as being safer and more convenient if you do get a puncture. Opponents have criticised the higher costs (no longer an issue), compromises in ride quality and change in driving dynamics if you do get a puncture.

Reuss plans to circumvent those concerns by giving buyers the choice between regular tyres (including a spare) and runflat tyres.

“[We’ll] make it a free option and tell the customer how much fuel they’re going to save by not carrying it around in the city,” he says. “As long as we option it at no cost then who cares? If [a spare tyre] is what you want and you’ve got to have it then great, but don’t penalise everybody [by adding weight].”

Reuss also says the increased use of lighter materials, such as aluminium, is also being considered.

“How do you measure the cost of lost sales due to fuel economy and mass?” he asks. “What it gets down to is you want to have a rule with everything you look at in a car on a cost per kilogram basis. [This is a] rule of thumb you apply to every single piece of the car”

He also says Holden’s large car could get a smaller V6 engine – the current V6 family can be built in sizes from 2.8 litres to 3.6 - and has not ruled out the option of the return of the four-cylinder Commodore.

“If you look at technologies like direct injection you can decrease the engine size and actually increase the power and increase fuel economy,” says Reuss. “The performance of the Commodore could be equal to or better than today if we can achieve both fuel technology, engine technology and mass efficiency and vehicle efficiency.”

The Commodore’s hydraulic power steering is also set to be replaced by a more efficient electric system.

The Commodore is also undergoing a complex analysis of its aerodynamics. Reuss plans to put the Commodore in a wind tunnel to verify proposed changes, which could encompass underbody updates, adjusted ride heights and revised tyre designs.

Reuss says the improvements to the Commodore will be rolled out progressively over the next few years, rather than in one big project. The first updates are due by the end of the year.

“Over the next three years you’re going to see a new entry, a new technology or both over the next couple of months.”

Holden and its parent General Motors are embarking on a strategy to diversify the fuel options that can be used in its vehicles. It is working on everything from electric and hydrogen power to natural gas, LPG and ethanol.

[Serial_Fool]

Sounds like a big advertisement from Holden. Always trying to outshine and outmanouver a superior porduct.

[Bossxr8]

As if 16kg of weight is going to save anything bar the smallest thimble full of petrol.

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

[yift]

run flat tyres.....they were meant to be released with them! cant wait to see the look of each and every commodore owners face when they have to replace them, they can be double the price of conventional tyres

[nugget378]

Commodore sales around punchbowl will spike heavily on release..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Commodore sales around punchbowl will spike heavily on release..

I'll tip the new fad in 5 years time is two runflats on the rears of every p plate commodore.....

[Airmon]

I hope Ford don't follow suit, I can see a real fuel saving in taking out the spare though. :

[Miller]

lol at power of a v6 with fuel ecconomy of a 4 pot. Good luck with that.

[Nikked]

so you save money on fuel but have more expensive tires?

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

Sounds like a big advertisement from Holden. Always trying to outshine and outmanouver a superior porduct.

A superior product never guarantees superior sales.

[Nikked]

beta!

[Supercharged]

Here comes a face lifted VB commodore, that VE is a big heavy gutless thing.

[MOTORE]

I don't mind run flats. Yeh sure you pay extra but I think it's worth it if it saves you changing a flat on the side of a busy road. They aren't as practical outside metro areas though because they can be hard to get.

[ebxr8240]

They say all this but its never released..
Holden have disabled these features but advertise them!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine
Had a BMW with these tyres.. Trust me they are no big deal..
Very expensive tyres to replace.. Yes you can drive with them flat !!
But you have to replace the tyre. It cannot be repaired....

[XF Falcon]

Aren't run flats heavier than regular tyres anyway? What would the extra weight of 4 run-flat tyres be over 4 conventional run-flat tyres?

[ebxr8240]

YEP!! The one's I had ....

[[Tonko]]

Maybe a StarfireII motor would be the go? :hihi:

[Wretched]

While I wouldn't buy a VE or any commodore for that matter, it is good to see them at least offering the technology. Actually interested in their use of lighter materials such as aluminum.

Now Ford what are you going to offer? Still awaiting the Xenon and LED lights.

[SSbaby]

Boy there sure are a lot of Holden threads here... one would think they were on a Holden forum! Is there anything exciting happening with those newfangled FGs? Where are all those FG threads I came looking for?

Back on topic... ;)

[sleekism]

Is this an article or an advertisement by Holden? God I hate drive!

If they wanted to save fuel they shouldn't have made it obese. The fact is that Commodores have been getting thirstier since VS while Falcons have been getting more frugal since EL.

The sad thing is that it will work. People at my work are excited by the Honda Legend that can "shut down two cylinders" despite the fact that the Honda uses more fuel than a base model Falcon and costs 80 grand.

Sometimes I start to not mind Holden and then they spin cr@p like this and it reminds me why I'm in the blue camp.

16 kilos honestly.............the fully sick subs in the boot and the avearge Commonwhore owners fat rolls weigh more than that.

[Fev]

From every single review of a car that has runflats they have only recieved bad comments whether the tyre was popped or not.. and with holdens claims!? PAH! good luck! BUT: its a publicity release, they are trying to get the public to believe that the next holden to be released will be cheap on fuel, huge savings etc etc etc.. Never enough words of praise for holdens marketing department(atleast compared to fords)

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As if 16kg of weight is going to save anything bar the smallest thimble full of petrol.

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

1400KG XR6T ohhh yeah oh the drifting!

[Dezza]

Most new BMWs have run-flats and just about every review is bagging them out for their harsh ride and expensive replacement costs.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As if 16kg of weight is going to save anything bar the smallest thimble full of petrol.

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

Oh that's great news!!! :

So... have you thought about how exactly Ford plans to achieve its objective, short of packaging an undersized, FWD, Camry rival and slapping on the famous Falcon badge? Be careful what you wish for.

Otherwise, it sounds about as plausible as Holden adopting run-flats + 16kg weight reduction and achieving a 25% improvement to fuel economy to its Commodore.

Boy there sure are a lot of buzz words being bandied around in the press...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Oh that's great news!!! :

So... have you thought about how exactly Ford plans to achieve its objective, short of packaging an undersized, FWD, Camry rival and slapping on the famous Falcon badge? Be careful what you wish for.

Otherwise, it sounds about as plausible as Holden adopting run-flats + 16kg weight reduction and achieving a 25% improvement to fuel economy to its Commodore.

Boy there sure are a lot of buzz words being bandied around in the press...

Bill Osbourne recons lightweight materials are the way to go, but rejected the idea of an aluminium body. He's an engineering PHD so if he believes its possible i'd believe him over Holdens BS marketing department. Like when one of the Holden guys said they will have a Hybrid Commodore ready in a few years, and the engineering bosses didn't even know what he was talking about because they haven't even looked at it. They then conceded it wasn't going to happen any time soon and they didn't know where they had got the idea of a Commonwhore Hybrid by 2010.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

I'll believe it when I see it.
Too many half baked ideas and promises from Ford and Holden.

There seems to be a trend of people moving to SUV/4wd as well, people finding these more relevant and practical than the traditional sedan. Ford need to rejig the Territory, update the bland styling, offer some nice goodies inside with the option of a DIESEL engine.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Bill Osbourne recons lightweight materials are the way to go, but rejected the idea of an aluminium body. He's an engineering PHD so if he believes its possible i'd believe him over Holdens BS marketing department. Like when one of the Holden guys said they will have a Hybrid Commodore ready in a few years, and the engineering bosses didn't even know what he was talking about because they haven't even looked at it. They then conceded it wasn't going to happen any time soon and they didn't know where they had got the idea of a Commonwhore Hybrid by 2010.

Can't argue with that wisdom!

So it's Falcon minus 300kg ... all systems go. :

Vote 1, Bill Osbourne for Ford's Global CEO position.

[FalconXR6]

A Commodore with a smaller capacity V6 than the current 3.6 litre?
I honestly can not imagine anything worse.
I can't imagine fuel consumption dramatically changing either.
A smaller V6 with less torque than the current torqueless motor will need to be whipped harder to get it to move - thus using more fuel to do so.

What Holden needs is a PROPER 6 speed gearbox for it's base models, not a public masturbation over run flat tyres and implying a 25% fuel saving as a result...!!!

Direct injection and light weight materials are the two biggest hurdles both Holden and Ford need to tackle if they want the efficiency of a current 4 pot. The Commo V6 in Caddy form already has direct injection, so it's only a matter of time before Holden adopts the tech. While Ford's new V6 for the Falcon will (from what I've read) be a DI engine.

Neither camp has confirmed plans to reduce weight and how they propose to this.

DSG transmissions, while currently too expensive for a family sedan, would also assist economy.

But once again (with regards to consumption) it's not what you drive, it's what you do with it that matters!!!

[prydey]

maybe holden should talk to a few bmw owners who drive cars with run flats and how much poorer the ride quality is. as others have said, these get very poor reviews worldwide.

[AWD Chaser]

Well, to have run flats fitted, they will need a Tyre Pressure Monitoring system on each vehicle that is fitted with run flats (requirement).

Saving 16kg of weight to save on fuel?

Why not just only ever put in half a tank of fuel. Saves carrying an extra 35L of fuel around, which would save more fuel....

[Pinch]

No way, current run flats have no place on a long distance car such as the Commodore. The saleability of Aussie large cars is their 'big car for a big country' effortless long distance cruising ability. This is not comensurate with run flats.

I personally vouch for the poorer ride quality of run flats. I have them on the Mini as 16's with sport suspension (so probably makes it a bit worse). Despite trying (pretty hard), I am still yet to hear the thing understeer though. I thought I heard it understeer the other day, but it was just a R8 Clubby behind trying to keep with me through a 25k hairpin (he smashed me after though...).

Run flats handle, and can be convenient (if costly) in metro areas but its the freeway drivability that is the BIG trade off. This is the Commodore's (or Falcon or Aurion's) strong point. It is a trade off I would not accept in a Commodore style car.

On the Mini, its not the ragtop, its not the 1.6 spinning though a CVT, or anything else thats stops its freeway driveability. Its the run flats. On flowing country roads they are fine, but what really throws you around is the expansion joints on freeways (and the ripple strips at the end of the F3 and Pacific Highway through Raymond Terrace north of Sydney). Anything over 80K is just not comfortable, especially around Wyee on the F3, and Marulan on the Hume, and is 80k's safe or convenient in these places? No. The Mini does not pretend to be a freeway cruiser, but it actually would be surprisingly capable without the run flats.

The Mini is a city commuter, and occassional B road car so the run flats are suited. Its much easier if you get a puncture, especially if the wife is driving, and finding a place to replace in Sydney is no issue. Cost has come down considerably per corner from when first released. A corner on the Mini is now about $280 v about $390 + when first released. You wouldn't want to be getting too many punctures though as you need a total replacement.

BMW tried to address the run flat ride issue in newer releases like the 1 series coupe, but had to soften the suspension which ruins the handling a bit, probably only really an issue in the sporting focused variants though. An article in the current Motor did a comparo involving the new Commo Sportswagon and a BMW Touring. The run flat ride killed the touring.

On a long distance car like a Commodore or Falcon run flats have no place, not until they ride like a normal tyre and there is infrastructre every 80 ks or so to replace them.