GRWD: what does the future hold?

Road_Warrior · 12-01-2010, 06:06 PM

The huge media circlejerk over the death-knell for the Falcon unfortunately raises more questions than answers at the moment. Phrases like "imported Taurus" have been bandied around far too much.

So instead, I was wanting to talk about an alternative future, one that involves RWD. Mulally hinted in his interview that Australia could have some input into the future Mustang. Depending on the involvement (either token or substantial), this has overtones of Global Rear Wheel Drive. Wishful thinking, or closer than you think? You decide.

Seeing as GRWD is still in deep freeze, and its future is still uncertain, can any insiders shed some light on the extent of the work that was done on it, and what shape it was taking? In a physical sense I mean. Was it like Orion at all, or an evolution of it? Or something totally different?

If a future RWD Falcon is going to fly here, we would be well placed to answer this little conundrum.

imugli · 12-01-2010, 06:28 PM

But IS it in deep freeze?

You probably know more than me, but I think there's too much talk around the place to the contrary to say that for certain...

Kamshaaft · 12-01-2010, 06:39 PM

Is there a Ford equivalent of GMinsidenews.com?

Road_Warrior · 12-01-2010, 07:06 PM

Yeah blueovalforums.com

Lots of dribble there though. There was a thread someone here linked to that contained a post from a supposed insider about the Lincoln RWD plan.

I know nothing about GRWD, but I am very curious to know what stage it got to before it was shelved, and what it looked like. Falcon-esque? Or something totally different?

Ghiadude · 12-01-2010, 09:08 PM

if "THEY" know something, they wouldnt be saying much. Theres a lot of "chatter" on forums and in papers and press releases. It seems to me that every second day there is another interview with mullaly,kuzak or burella and that means these guys are asking for the attention. Its creating hype, speculation, and geneal awareness that a decision is being made. To me that means that an announcement is iminent. I have no idea what that may be. There are guys on here that know more than they are letting on. Hang on for the ride. Cross your fingers it will be a positive move for FoA.

Kamshaaft · 12-01-2010, 09:46 PM

Whatever happens, I just hope it doesn't involve imported cars.

Falc'man · 12-01-2010, 10:32 PM

As we may already know, Ford expect a solid profit in 2011 (about the same time they'll make that "decision" on Falcon).

The project which is at the top of their list when that comes to fruition willbe GRWD. This is good news, and a pie in the face to the unedumecated journos who day-in day-out have proven to report with inaccuracy when it comes to forecasting future plans and developments.

They say "we'll be making a decision in 12-18 months time"; there's no doubt things change, even from day to day, but as I said, GRWD is very high on their agenda.

And guess where the centre of excellence for Ford's RWD is?

Chilliman · 12-01-2010, 11:23 PM

This whole 'the end of the Falcon is nigh" caper reminds me of a certain, rumoured to be on purpose, mis-statement by Ford to the media when details of the 2011 Mustang were released -

On the Monday the press spec sheet said that 5.0 Mustang would weigh in at 1761kg, and the crowd went wild - the Mustang was going to be a porker, advantage neutralised! On the Wednesday, Ford re-released the spec sheet admitting that there had been a mis-print. The Mustang would come in at 1630kg.

I believe that Ford may be perfecting the art of the 'sucker punch'. Let people think you're doing one thing then BAM hit them with something they didn't see coming.

Maybe I'm being hopeful, but there have been enough snippets on these forums to give me confidence

Kamshaaft · 12-01-2010, 11:33 PM

One can do nothng more at this stage than sit here with our fingers crossed under our bums that the Falcon won't be going away.

FPV GTHO · 12-01-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

And guess where the centre of excellence for Ford's RWD is?

Unless theyve lifted their game, its certainly not the guys who took $1.5B to engineer a product with a Focus front end and a live axle rear, and later admitted they couldve developed an IRS at a cost of around $200-300 per car.

Swordsman88 · 12-01-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Unless theyve lifted their game, its certainly not the guys who took $1.5B to engineer a product with a Focus front end and a live axle rear, and later admitted they couldve developed an IRS at a cost of around $200-300 per car.

Ford itself has admitted it stuffed that one up.... Part of the reason why this time around i think they will give Ford Aus a fair hearing on the whole GRWD/Mustang/Falcon situation. Not saying they will be identical, but given Control Blade IRS we use in Falcon now was not really designed for RWD cars to start with, and Ford itself has admitted it is an 'older style design' then some competitors (but still very good and affordable to build) i think Falcon/Mustang will share an IRS setup in the longer term.....

FPV GTHO · 12-01-2010, 11:52 PM

Maybe a return to the DEW inspired double wishbone setup?

Road_Warrior · 13-01-2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

This whole 'the end of the Falcon is nigh" caper reminds me of a certain, rumoured to be on purpose, mis-statement by Ford to the media when details of the 2011 Mustang were released -

On the Monday the press spec sheet said that 5.0 Mustang would weigh in at 1761kg, and the crowd went wild - the Mustang was going to be a porker, advantage neutralised! On the Wednesday, Ford re-released the spec sheet admitting that there had been a mis-print. The Mustang would come in at 1630kg.

I believe that Ford may be perfecting the art of the 'sucker punch'. Let people think you're doing one thing then BAM hit them with something they didn't see coming.

Maybe I'm being hopeful, but there have been enough snippets on these forums to give me confidence

Well Ford need to come out swinging against these media reports, because they have circled the country like wildfire and will be putting people off buying them. This debacle has the potential to cripple the FG's sales without waiting for the lifecycle of the platform to arrive in 5 years. So far all we have heard from Broadmeadows is silence.

Back to GRWD, I would imagine that the FG's front end would be a front runner for a new platform surely?

Swordsman88 · 13-01-2010, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Back to GRWD, I would imagine that the FG's front end would be a front runner for a new platform surely?

One would assume so. Unless cost of the all aluminium front end scared Ford off. Even so, you could make it out of steel if you wanted. Alot of advanced ford desigin in that front end, from research done by Ford globally. So i would say it would be used in some form by other vehicles eventually....

Chilliman · 13-01-2010, 02:23 PM

Looks like they landed that 'sucker punch' this morning

:

Road_Warrior · 13-01-2010, 02:53 PM

Confirmation is still scant on the ground though.

I would imagine any GRWD would do away with the Falcon's Control Blade IRS? The Mustang will need an IRS far more compact than the CB for its low rear floorpan.

**ebxr8240** · 13-01-2010, 05:41 PM

Keep in mind the Mustang did have IRS...

FPV GTHO · 13-01-2010, 05:57 PM

The last Mustang IRS was a double wishbone setup. Im not sure if it had any similarity to the AU IRS though. Both setups were designed to fit into the space also occupied by a live axle though.

naddis01 · 13-01-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Looks like they landed that 'sucker punch' this morning

:

What have I missed?

vztrt · 13-01-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

What have I missed?

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...4&page=1&pp=25

naddis01 · 13-01-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...4&page=1&pp=25

Thanks, but I found it after I posted.

:

Road_Warrior · 13-01-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Looks like they landed that 'sucker punch' this morning

:

I think the term 'falcon punch' is more appropriate.

Ghiadude · 13-01-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghiadude

To me that means that an announcement is iminent. I have no idea what that may be. There are guys on here that know more than they are letting on. Hang on for the ride. Cross your fingers it will be a positive move for FoA.

just reminding people that i said that the announcement was iminent.
5h17 im good!

Road_Warrior · 14-01-2010, 06:50 PM

The switch from the trusty I6 to the global V6 will more than likely bring about some changes to the bulkheads and firewall won't it?

And also, GRWD means use of the corporate transmissions which means: no more ZF. This may also mean a trans tunnel and floorpan redesign.

Falc'man · 14-01-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The switch from the trusty I6 to the global V6 will more than likely bring about some changes to the bulkheads and firewall won't it?

And also, GRWD means use of the corporate transmissions which means: no more ZF. This may also mean a trans tunnel and floorpan redesign.

And a whole new waist line.

Ghiadude · 14-01-2010, 08:44 PM

Unfortunately the fact that GRWD is going ahead would most likely mean that the I6's days are numbered. Its a big price to pay to keep our beloved falcon - A small price to pay to keep local manufacturing going.

Road_Warrior · 15-01-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

And a whole new waist line.

I would imagine that the bulkheads and firewall will be higher and whatnot to account for the global V6 but the waistline would vary according to the top hat used on the platform. The difference between the Mustang and Falcon would be particularly acute.

And yes, it will be bye bye for the I6. At least 2015 gives me enough time to save my pennies for one of the last XR6 Turbos.

phillyc · 15-01-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The switch from the trusty I6 to the global V6 will more than likely bring about some changes to the bulkheads and firewall won't it?

And also, GRWD means use of the corporate transmissions which means: no more ZF. This may also mean a trans tunnel and floorpan redesign.

Not necessarily. Ford and ZF developed the PowerShift dual clutch gearbox together in North America. Although, I understand, Ford has taken over the running of the operation.

In fact, there is some information (speculative only) in the poorly titled XR8 threatened article (contradicted in the article) by Burela.

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...0115-mb3u.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drive

A Drive source at the Detroit show said the six-speed auto can be expected to spread throughout the Falcon range, including ute and Territory, but not the wagon that's set for the graveyard or the diesel Territory. Supply of the four- and five-speed autos used on lower-spec Falcons and RWD Territorys is believed to be coming to an end.

It's possible Ford could eventually offer an optional eight-speed auto on its local models, which would bring fuel consumption benefits with its extra ratios. The new auto from ZF is fitted to some of the latest BMWs, including the 5-Series GT.

XRFutura · 15-01-2010, 11:10 PM

ZF didn't develop fords powershift gearbox was another german gearbox maker getrag. But what I have read about the gearbox it seams to be a pretty good box. I'll be very happy to have it in my falcon.

Road_Warrior · 15-01-2010, 11:25 PM

Isn't the PowerShift trans a FWD auto???