Local Holden Cruze delayed...

[Swordsman88]

Just noticed this story on the goauto site.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576A9002BA12A

Originally Posted by goauto

Cruze sedan, hatch split launch ‘too hard’, says Holden chief

12 January 2010

By JAMES STANFORD in Detroit

HOLDEN has confirmed it will not introduce its all-important locally produced Cruze small car this year as planned, pushing back the launch by six months.

The company had originally planned to introduce the sedan in the third quarter of 2010, but said it always planned to introduce the hatch next March.

Now Holden has admitted that both vehicles will not hit showrooms until next March.

GM Holden chairman and managing director Alan Batey told GoAuto that it was just too hard to launch the local sedan before the hatch.

“We would have to run out the imported car and introduce the new one, then we would have Christmas, so we train people up and then we go on holiday then they come back and we have these things going on,” Mr Batey said.

“We thought, this just doesn’t make sense; let’s train the people up, let’s get Christmas out of the way, get them back and close the gap between the four (door) and the five (door).”

When asked why the decision to release both cars at the same time wasn’t made earlier, Mr Batey indicated other factors influenced the decision.

“The car went off better than we expected, so we are outselling our forecast. And secondly we have other programs, such as the (export) police car program coming, so for engineering resources we have other things we are trying to do.”

It is unclear if the Australian Cruze models will feature the basic torsion beam rear suspension of the South Korean sedan currently on sale or be upgraded with the more complex Watts Z-link rear suspension that is standard on the US production version of the car.

Asked if the Australian car would get the premium rear suspension, Mr Batey said: “It is a possibility, but we haven’t actually announced what we are going to do with that.”

Mr Batey did not reveal whether a decision had been made and said Holden could decide quite late which way it would head, because the Cruze was a “plug-and-play” design which made for easy component switch-over. Both suspension units would be imported.

The deciding factor is likely to be cost and whether customers of such a vehicle are willing to pay more for better ride and handling. Mr Batey seems unconvinced this is the case.

“It (the Watts Z-link) is more expensive, but it isn’t just about cost but about customer value. What does the customer get from it? Does he understand what he is getting from it?” he said.

“I wouldn’t jump to a conclusion that we will definitely do it.”

Mr Batey confirmed a 1.4 turbocharged four-cylinder petrol engine would be added to Cruze range soon after the March launch.

He added that the premium engine, which produces 103kW 200Nm in US form, would be sold alongside the naturally aspirated 1.8-litre petrol four-cylinder currently available in the imported Cruze (104kW/176Nm).

Mr Batey confirmed that the Australian-produced Cruze would contain 70 per cent imported components.

The remaining 30 per cent of locally made components such as the body panels, bumpers and fuel tank.

The local content would hopefully increase in time, said Mr Batey, but only if it made financial sense.

“We would like to localise as much of the car as possible because you get quicker response times and much more flexibility, but it all has to stack up,” he said.

Strong global demand for the Cruze could open up the opportunity for Holden to export some of its production. Mr Batey met with newly installed General Motors international operations president Tim Lee in Detroit to discuss the opportunity and will now put together a business case.

He told GoAuto that it was too early to discuss the detail of the plan when asked about which markets the Australian Cruze could be sent to.

“If we were to do it quickly we would need right-hand drive, so the UK is natural market, South Africa is another one, Thailand is a potential market with a free-trade agreement, but that discussion (with Mr Lee) only happened this morning. It is too early to say whether we will do an export program on Cruze,” Mr Batey said.

Then there is the prospect of left-hand drive exports.

“We haven’t even looked at the possibility right now,” Mr Batey said.

“If the demand continues the way it is, we will do a desktop study of what it would cost to install capacity (for left-hand-drive) and whether it would make sense.”

With all the hoopla surrounding the Falcon platform and Ford Aus viability, i expect this story to get buried in the motoring, yet alone, mainstream press. Upshots of this are what we all knew.
-The cruze will not be here this year.
-car is 70% imported. Holden claims local content coud lift...i doubt that...
- the torsion beam suspension may be retained....the more expensive indepent rear end may not be worth it because the customer may not see the advantage

Just thought i'd bring this to everyone attention....apologies if it is a repost.

[vztrt]

Maybe they'll keep pushing it back and then not build it at all. Seeing as its probably gonna be to expensive to build in Australia.

[Fordman1]

30% local content only ?

I'm struggling to understand how they are getting state and federal funding for this .....

FoA canned Focus as they couldn't get the content up to the required cut-off for funding (so it would work - or breakeven).

Go figure ..............

[Luke Plaizier]

You mean Jez Spinks hasn't led with this story today, with headlines of a delay to local Cruze or that it will only have 30% local content? Or would his words make these things sound positive?


Lukeyson

[cosmo20btt]

As I had said in a previous post Government motors is not allowed to let any money out of the states while under Chapter 11, so Holden will have to go it alone with what funds it has here, before the GFC GM earmarked 450 million to be set aside for Cruze, I am pretty sure Holden did not get it, that is why it is now more likely another import, assembly plant venture.

[Chilliman]

And sometime later this year I expect an announcement to the effect that Cruze will not be built here at all.

[Brazen]

Hmmm a day after the new Focus is released, the Cruze is delayed by 6 months. Perhaps a much-needed facelift will be on the cards for when local production starts.

[The Snout]

By the time it's done, all Holden will do is slap on a set of Super Cheap Auto seat covers and bang on how it's Australian Made and Styled.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Hmmm a day after the new Focus is released, the Cruze is delayed by 6 months. Perhaps a much-needed facelift will be on the cards for when local production starts.

This delay has been known about by Holden employees for 2 months so it has nothing to do with the Focus release or needing a facelift, just coincidence.

If anything they have mentioned it now as most of the motoring public who care are reeling from the Falcon story. This will quickly be forgotten if it even raises an eyebrow amongst most.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

This delay has been known about by Holden employees for 2 months so it has nothing to do with the Focus release or needing a facelift, just coincidence.

If anything they have mentioned it now as most of the motoring public who care are reeling from the Falcon story. This will quickly be forgotten if it even raises an eyebrow amongst most.

Yeah it was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment about the Focus. A great time to announce somewhat negative news with the Falcon getting all the attention.

[Ghiadude]

GMH... the shane warne (spinner) of the motoring industry

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

As I had said in a previous post Government motors is not allowed to let any money out of the states while under Chapter 11, so Holden will have to go it alone with what funds it has here, before the GFC GM earmarked 450 million to be set aside for Cruze, I am pretty sure Holden did not get it, that is why it is now more likely another import, assembly plant venture.

Ding Ding, everybody look here!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Just noticed this story on the goauto site.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576A9002BA12A



With all the hoopla surrounding the Falcon platform and Ford Aus viability, i expect this story to get buried in the motoring, yet alone, mainstream press. Upshots of this are what we all knew.
-The cruze will not be here this year.
-car is 70% imported. Holden claims local content coud lift...i doubt that...
- the torsion beam suspension may be retained....the more expensive indepent rear end may not be worth it because the customer may not see the advantage

Just thought i'd bring this to everyone attention....apologies if it is a repost.

Great post as usual Swordy. The thread title, Local Holden Cruze delayed, should've been the Go-Auto and every other media title.

But, no, General Motors Holden, waited until Ford was ambushed by Jez Spinks and co. Heck, maybe they helped pay for Jez Spinks' airfare over there?

The way I see it, Ford, in the overall scheme of things have given General Motors Holden a great big sucker punch with this debacle.

Ford announced they'd make the Focus in Australia. GMH said no it couldn't be done. The Federal Government waved a few hundred million in their faces and they said, yep we can make Cruze. Now for the second or third time, they've delayed the 'launch'. If it does get made locally (i doubt it will) and if it did keep selling pretty well, this could be a massive loss-maker for GMH.

Just seems no-one in the media wants to kick GMH in the nuts. Not how they treat Ford.

PS Agreed. GMH being broke, meant no money spent on this last year.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

As I had said in a previous post Government motors is not allowed to let any money out of the states while under Chapter 11, so Holden will have to go it alone with what funds it has here, before the GFC GM earmarked 450 million to be set aside for Cruze, I am pretty sure Holden did not get it, that is why it is now more likely another import, assembly plant venture.

GMHolden have no money, and the conditions from the US Government were that none of the $60Billion USD given to GM was to go overseas to keep their operations going.

Lest we also not forget, the SECRET $200M AUD loan that the Australian Government gave to GMHolden last year too. That information only came out during question time in parliament. Again. Largely overlooked by the Australian media.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by phillyc

GMHolden have no money, and the conditions from the US Government were that none of the $60Billion USD given to GM was to go overseas to keep their operations going.

Lest we also not forget, the SECRET $200M AUD loan that the Australian Government gave to GMHolden last year too. That information only came out during question time in parliament. Again. Largely overlooked by the Australian media.

I thought that they spent some of that buying 888 & others, two hundred million dollars does not go very far today.

[eb2fairmont]

Cruze exists because the federal and sa state governments gave holden 170 million dollars. Think about this for a moment. 170 million for a car which already had the R&D done. Only work to do is really fit out the factory, tool and R&D the "unique" hatch version. 30% is local, rest is in imported boxes, from countries which make stuff cheap (china). If you're only making 30% locally theres not much to tool up for.

Now you don't have the be blind freddy to realise that the cost to get cruze to market for Holden is about 2/5 of SFA. R&D is effectively paid for by the taxpayer, theres no issues with local content - so its just slap em together and sell them to government fleets and idiots. Much the same really.

Cruze would have to go down as one of the biggest rorts of all time. It will make Holden money as they dont have much setup cost to amortise across the units they sell. So the big issues regarding margin are taken care of because what you have to buy in is cheap, and you didn't spend anything developing it.

Ford was never able to make focus numbers add up, simply because Focus didn't have the big bucket of funding thrown at it. Cruze did, simply because it shares archetecture with volt and the silly pollies put 2 and 2 togther and got 6. The promise of the 14t in cruze got it the green car funding.

So given those rules, Ford went for a 4 cyl in the Falcon which made it eligible.

Holden will make all sorts of grandiose staements about cruze, mainly about export of the hatch but it will amount to SFA because of the AUD.

This stuff just makes me mad.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Cruze exists because the federal and sa state governments gave holden 170 million dollars. Think about this for a moment. 170 million for a car which already had the R&D done. Only work to do is really fit out the factory, tool and R&D the "unique" hatch version. 30% is local, rest is in imported boxes, from countries which make stuff cheap (china). If you're only making 30% locally theres not much to tool up for.

Now you don't have the be blind freddy to realise that the cost to get cruze to market for Holden is about 2/5 of SFA. R&D is effectively paid for by the taxpayer, theres no issues with local content - so its just slap em together and sell them to government fleets and idiots. Much the same really.

Cruze would have to go down as one of the biggest rorts of all time. It will make Holden money as they dont have much setup cost to amortise across the units they sell. So the big issues regarding margin are taken care of because what you have to buy in is cheap, and you didn't spend anything developing it.

Ford was never able to make focus numbers add up, simply because Focus didn't have the big bucket of funding thrown at it. Cruze did, simply because it shares archetecture with volt and the silly pollies put 2 and 2 togther and got 6. The promise of the 14t in cruze got it the green car funding.

So given those rules, Ford went for a 4 cyl in the Falcon which made it eligible.

Holden will make all sorts of grandiose staements about cruze, mainly about export of the hatch but it will amount to SFA because of the AUD.

This stuff just makes me mad.

Excellent post. Well done, and I couldn't agree more.
Holden are a drain on the public purse, and the media champion them for it. Ford turn a profit, and the meeeja turns on them. Good little comrades aren't we?

[Fordman1]

Ford were not getting not much less for Focus (from the Fed & Vic Gov't s) if it went ahead, it's not commonly known, but regardless they couldn't make a business case for it.

In the end the business was at risk if it went ahead, it was going to put a huge financial strain on them....

The C car segment is sooo fragmented and price sensitive.

Focus had to be severely decontented (taking features out) to get near the price it had to sell for - if that was done it wouldn't be the brand that Ford want it to be in a couple of years. Not only that but the govenment demanded a certain local content for the money to be granted (60 % local minimum I think it was).

HOW THE HELL ARE GMH GOING TO MAKE A CENT ON CRUZE ?

HOW DOES 30 % SIT WITH THE GOVERNMENTS ?

IMO it will be the end of them - or are they going to be proped up again in 2 years ?

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Ford were not getting not much less for Focus (from the Fed & Vic Gov't s) if it went ahead, it's not commonly known, but regardless they couldn't make a business case for it.

In the end the business was at risk if it went ahead, it was going to put a huge financial strain on them....

The C car segment is sooo fragmented and price sensitive.

Focus had to be severely decontented (taking features out) to get near the price it had to sell for - if that was done it wouldn't be the brand that Ford want it to be in a couple of years. Not only that but the govenment demanded a certain local content for the money to be granted (60 % local minimum I think it was).

HOW THE HELL ARE GMH GOING TO MAKE A CENT ON CRUZE ?

HOW DOES 30 % SIT WITH THE GOVERNMENTS ?

IMO it will be the end of them - or are they going to be proped up again in 2 years ?

That's why I believe we can expect an announcement by Holden before the year is out that local Cruze production will be cancelled!

[GK]

Originally Posted by ltd

Holden are a drain on the public purse, and the media champion them for it. Ford turn a profit, and the meeeja turns on them. Good little comrades aren't we?

Too true!

GK

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

IMO it will be the end of them - or are they going to be proped up again in 2 years ?

No doubt, our state government propped up Mitsubishi for years.

If Holdens was to close it would see 2-3000 people out of work in an already struggling area, the ramifications would be disasterous.
The recent Bridgestone collapse has forced local governments to act fast in getting 600 people new jobs, imagine another few thousand.

[eb2fairmont]

Imagine the population burst as people elect to take the baby bonus for income!

But Barraxr8 has hit another nail on the head, something which came out on carpoint today. That is, Marin Burela would like 1/2 of a 100K market rather than compete in the c segment which is a 200K market with 22 competitors.

I still think Holden will make money on cruze. State government purchases will see to it.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

I still think Holden will make money on cruze. State government purchases will see to it.

So the small profit (if there is one) that would still be made when they do fleet pricing to governments??

[ZC001]

Yet another Holden bashing thread (ho hum).

The good news is regardless of the badge on this car, and whether it has torsion beam or independent rear suspension, it is assembled in Australia which means MORE JOBS FOR AUSTRALIANS.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by ZC001

Yet another Holden bashing thread (ho hum).

The good news is regardless of the badge on this car, and whether it has torsion beam or independent rear suspension, it is assembled in Australia which means MORE JOBS FOR AUSTRALIANS.

I agree it is more jobs for Australians, but a hell of a lot more for over seas (Thailand), then it will be touted as the all Australian Cruze. If it ever happens of course. Just another short change brought to you by Government Motors.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by ZC001

Yet another Holden bashing thread (ho hum).

The good news is regardless of the badge on this car, and whether it has torsion beam or independent rear suspension, it is assembled in Australia which means MORE JOBS FOR AUSTRALIANS.

I'll try not to take that post as an attack on my OP. Unless you intended it as just that...

Moving on, how many jobs do you really think this will create. The local parts industry is only geting 30% if that, and they are all underworked anyway so hardly any more employment there. And while i'd like aussie jobs to be created as much as the next guy their will be bupkis in terms of engineering jobs created since the degree of local modification is also very low. Finally, Holden has 'kept on' (if you could call that) most of its production line workers at half pay so they could be put back on full time when cruze comes online. So hardly a noticeable increase in workers being employed niether.

If your comment was intended as a general 'aussie production is good' statment then that i fully agree, but in this case there is very little 'aussie' about it, be it design or production. Besides, the quality of the product and its competitiveness should be the standard by which a model is judged, not who it employs or where. I wouldn't suggest people buy a falcon over honda accord because its built in australia (as opposed to thailand), but i would recommend they do because its the better car.... Sad to say it but i'd buy a VW golf, mazda 3 or ford focus over this cruze any day of the week, despite not being built in australia....

[Ghiadude]

Cruze - The new Camira

Theres nothing australian about taking a government handout in times of trouble and then dropping 8 million on an english touring car team AND competing with a car company that has long produced a better, MORE australian car than your own and all the while pulling the wool over the eyes of the ozy public by singing that stupid song

football meatpies kangaroos and korean cars.. :togo:

[Bossxr8]

Just proves Holden have no money. With GM no longer able to provide funding outside the US, Holden are in a very bad position, they cannot spend much money on product.

Ford aren't exactly floating in cash but will have an upgraded Falcon this year and a new Territory next year, with the possibility of Falcon in 2012 with new sheetmetal front and rear, plus 4 cyl, LI LPG and V6 TD over the next 18 months.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

30% local content only ?

I think it comes down to the marketing. While 70% of the car imported, the parts probabbly come in a container from OS, get delivered to holdens and they build the car on the assembly line. So I guess in away, it is built in Australia, just not all are locally sourced parts.

I'm not sure how it works.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I think it comes down to the marketing. While 70% of the car imported, the parts probabbly come in a container from OS, get delivered to holdens and they build the car on the assembly line. So I guess in away, it is built in Australia, just not all are locally sourced parts.

I'm not sure how it works.

I know...

My point is : Ford were told that they needed 60 % local content to get the Govenment grant. How do Holden get away with 30 % ?