V8 Muscle Cars, a proposal

[flappist]

After watching the V8SC on the odd occasion and reading the almost constant threads on the "muscle car era", "real racing", heritage yada yada yada, I have thought of an idea for a possible new series.

V8 Muscle Cars.

It would be run as a support event for V8SC or perhaps independently.

There are at least two marques, Holden and Ford with maybe Chrysler.

The vehicles are actually V8SC chassis with the following changes.
1) Ford must use 351 Cleveland V8s (with controls)
2) Holden must use 350 Chevrolet V8s (with controls)
3) The body shell shapes are restricted to XR-XB, HK-HQ
Other than that all the V8SC technology is employed. The engine controls are to prevent "cheating". i.e. Use this cam, that carby, those pistons etc.

So we get to see again history brought to life without the possibility of destroying "real" muscle cars.

Any thoughts?

[vztrt]

But they have the historic's now.

[ZDHLANE]

jUST LOOK AT WEHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE HQ SERIES.

They are running are running out of race equipped hq

It would be ltd no's

[flappist]

Originally Posted by vztrt

But they have the historic's now.

Historics are real cars from the era, they are slow and "boring" compared to V8SC. The idea is to make a TV friendly series.

These cars are like V8SC, completely FAKE just made to look like the originals.

[TURBOTAXI]

I will watch Bathurst because its a requirement.

I want a factory floor series where tyres, exhausts and brake pads are all than can be changed.

Make racing like it was in the 70's.

I know it would be slower, but there is no comparison between the V8SC's and a showroom model.

[TURBOTAXI]

Yes I know in the 70's people worked motors etc.. I just want something where the car you can buy is what is raced.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

These cars are like V8SC, completely FAKE just made to look like the originals.

so pretty much the same as what we have but with different top hats.

[302 XC]

So a sort of rebodied V8SC ???
Whos got the funds for that

[rex351]

I would hardly call Biante TCM a slow and boring series. I reckon they have hit the nail on the head with this class. The cars are a good representation of the way touring car racing was but with an extra 100hp from the modern design heads,cams, carbs etc. and a good variety of makes/models involved.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

Yes I know in the 70's people worked motors etc.. I just want something where the car you can buy is what is raced.

you realise there is a production car series. it doesn't get supported though. also, the fords generally get it handed to them so i reckno most on here would get pretty tired of that very quickly.

the v8sc series needs to be viewed differently. stop trying to make connections back to the road going versions. it doesn't work anymore. its the same the world over. manufacturers keep the top hat looking similar to a certain brand to attract interest but otherwise they are purpose built race cars. nothing wrong with that at all and a hell of a lot faster than anything else they try to create.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

Historics are real cars from the era, they are slow and "boring" compared to V8SC.

Does that imply the V8SCs aren't boring?

[SVR73]

supers were pretty good to watch today. better than watching the **** I had too in the USA for the past three months

[Iggypoppin']

I like your idea flappy.
Bring back Nissan GTR and Sierra cosworth et al, stop limiting cars to 302ci, open the competition up a bit

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

so pretty much the same as what we have but with different top hats.

Yes more or less.

V8SC is just artificial tribalism overlaid on a base competition something like F1, State of Origin or the Olympics.

You don't care who wins as long as it is us and if our "team" is not competing we don't even watch.

It is just an idea. If you think it is a bad idea then there are 2 poll choices the same as good idea.

Ideas need to be explored. If someone had said to you 10 years ago that they were going sell water in little bottles for $5 a hit when water was free everywhere what would you have thought of THAT idea?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ideas need to be explored. If someone had said to you 10 years ago that they were going sell water in little bottles for $5 a hit when water was free everywhere what would you have thought of THAT idea?

unreal isn't it. selling snow/ice to eskimo's is no longer just a saying.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ideas need to be explored. If someone had said to you 10 years ago that they were going sell water in little bottles for $5 a hit when water was free everywhere what would you have thought of THAT idea?

Personally, I would say if someone puts it out there and pushes the barrow hard enough, there will be a whole bunch of numbnuts who will buy it.

[prydey]

i think if you have old shells on new tech, it will be even more artificial than what it is now.

i know this is kind of heading off topic, but maybe they should make the biante touring car masters a support act at every event. bring them in under the v8sc umbrella so they get more financial support and can race for more than about 8 laps at a time.

maybe they will be worried the support event would be more popular than the main event.

what all events need, is tv coverage. without tv coverage, you won't get the support. this is half the problem with production car series. it already went belly up once (procar?). without the coverage you only get a smattering of local support at each race and there is no continuity in the series.

[302 XC]

Water is a multi squillion dollar business
IF some one asked me to get on board years ago,yeah sure would have larfed at them
Why is most of the water stuff owned by coca-cola ???

Anyway back on topic
Why would holden have to run the 350s ???
For engine size restriction ???
The little 308 has won more races than any other motor in australia

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Water is a multi squillion dollar business
IF some one asked me to get on board years ago,yeah sure would have larfed at them
Why is most of the water stuff owned by coca-cola ???

Anyway back on topic
Why would holden have to run the 350s ???
For engine size restriction ???
The little 308 has won more races than any other motor in australia

350 was the engine in most of the Monaros, 351C was the engine in most of the Falcons. 308 was a Torana engine.

The idea of the engines being genuine rather than the dedicated race engines in V8SC was to strengthen the link with the heritage.

The poll is interesting, there is no middle ground. You either love it or hate it.

But then this is AFF where the words Holden and Satan are interchangeable......

[OZQUAD44]

This idea has already been done. It already supports the V8SC events and its not Historics. Its called, Biante Touring Car Masters. How about you get to a track and watch it some time.

Top racing, lots of makes, old V8 and six cyliner engines, Alloy heads allowed, carbies are a must, modern brakes, modern roll cages, and race tuned suspension based on the original factory configurations. Much quicker than Historics. Awsome to watch and listen to.

Cars you ask...Phase four replica's, HQ monaros, Mustangs, GTR Toranas, LH torana's, Chargers, XY GT falcons, Falcon Sprints, Alfa's, Porshe's etc et .... If you don't know what I'm on about, you need to get off the forums and go watch it.

As for the V8SC. It's competitive racing thats going from strength to strength. It has to be one of the best touring car (saloon car) classes in the world. It's no longer 1971 fella's. What was good then aint necessarily good now.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

This idea has already been done. It already supports the V8SC events and its not Historics. Its called, Biante Touring Car Masters. How about you get to a track and watch it some time.

Top racing, lots of makes, old V8 and six cyliner engines, Alloy heads allowed, carbies are a must, modern brakes, modern roll cages, and race tuned suspension based on the original factory configurations. Much quicker than Historics. Awsome to watch and listen to.

Cars you ask...Phase four replica's, HQ monaros, Mustangs, GTR Toranas, LH torana's, Chargers, XY GT falcons, Falcon Sprints, Alfa's, Porshe's etc et .... If you don't know what I'm on about, you need to get off the forums and go watch it.

As for the V8SC. It's competitive racing thats going from strength to strength. It has to be one of the best touring car (saloon car) classes in the world. It's no longer 1971 fella's. What was good then aint necessarily good now.

Do you not see any irony in stating that it already exists (even though it is completely different from my idea) and then having to explain what it is as very few have heard of it?

[JamesR]

i think Improved Production is pretty much what your describing too..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you not see any irony in stating that it already exists (even though it is completely different from my idea) and then having to explain what it is as very few have heard of it?

which is why i said, it would have to have similar tv support to the main game. i see them once a year at clipsal and thats it. other states would be the same whereas i can watch every v8sc race if i choose. with more free to air stations coming online maybe they should find a way to support the support events, namely the TCM.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you not see any irony in stating that it already exists (even though it is completely different from my idea) and then having to explain what it is as very few have heard of it?

Yes it is completely different to Biante Touring car masters in your mind, but Joe Average will simply see another bunch of old cars around a track and won't know the difference.

IMO

[GasoLane]

I'd prefer to see a 'modern' muscle car series.

Like the V8SC but with any company that makes a V8, and see how Ford and GMH fare against the likes of Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes etc.

But with OZ being too far from the HQ of the above cars it will never happen.

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'd prefer to see a 'modern' muscle car series.

Like the V8SC but with any company that makes a V8, and see how Ford and GMH fare against the likes of Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes etc.

But with OZ being too far from the HQ of the above cars it will never happen.

This.
I like your thinking.

[minheim]

I'd like to see a v8 sedan series like the v8 utes. Not sure they would last a 1000km but would be great to see cars that look and are closer to the showroom floor and which can handle a bit more biffo

[GS608]

Originally Posted by minheim

I'd like to see a v8 sedan series like the v8 utes. Not sure they would last a 1000km but would be great to see cars that look and are closer to the showroom floor and which can handle a bit more biffo

you're kidding yourself if you think a stock falc or commo with a roll cage and a few mods can handle more biff than a purpose built racecar.

[OZQUAD44]

Many of the ideas swirling around in this thread are so close to what's actually happening its not funny. Is it not the case that from 2012 V8SC will be open to other car makes. Teams will be able to use the likes of Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes etc with V8's. Sure there is the potential that a V8 RWD Camry will surface its ugly head, but lets hope it will at least be powered by a Toyota V8 so its got the same DNA.

Flappist, the irony is, explaining the intricacies of the Biantie Touring Car Masters to someone like yourself. But then again, you were the one that started out your thread stating that you only watch on the odd occasion. So it was a fair guess that you don't spend much of your time trying to understand the categories that are running around in support of the V8SC. You asked for thoughts you got them.

[Mickxr8]

my 2cs
leave the old cars alone. (xr-xb) theres not a lot left now to risk racing,crashing them..
v8 supercars are `ok` to watch but really.. it`s an overpriced,over commercialized game now. how about taking it back a bit so what you could buy from the showroom,add some safety stuff,shocks,tyres THEN take it straight to the track ? (ford/holden of course).
alas i can`t see this happening real soon(meaning P/O s/cars all together) ??