Ford Announces 8 speed Transmission and Split Cooling Technology

chevypower · 03-06-2011, 02:51 AM

This is great news! http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06...ng-system.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickuptrucks.com

Ford says it plans to offer new eight-speed automatic transmissions across its vehicle lineup that offer improved fuel economy and ultra-precise shifts.

The gearbox will allow Ford to continue its effort to downsize engine displacement without affecting performance, said Joe Bakaj, Ford's vice president of global powertrain engineering.

"The eight-speed will offer 2 to 6 percent better fuel economy" compared with today's six-speed transmission, like that found in the Ford F-150, Bakaj said. "It will have a wide ratio spread, so customers can run a shorter gear [than today] pulling away from a stop."

The eight-speed will also feature what Ford says is the industry's first torque input sensor. The sensor will measure torque coming into the transmission, enabling faster gear selection, reducing gear hunting and helping smooth out shifts.

"The transmission knows how much torque is needed and will be able to variably control pressure on the clutch packs to deliver smooth shifts," Bakaj said.

Hydraulic actuators that control line pressure applied to clutch plates during shifts will be directly integrated into the transmission case instead of embedded in a separate assembly that's bolted inside the housing, like today's Ford transmissions use. The integrated construction promises tighter component fit and less component flexibility which can stress the sensitive parts.

Bakaj didn't say which vehicles will get the new transmission, but we imagine it will be a perfect match for the Ford F-150, which currently uses a six-speed 6R80 automatic gearbox.

Ford also announced a so-called split cooling system that allows the cylinder block to warm up before the cylinder head. The split cooling system saves fuel during cold weather or short trips because oil and engine fluid viscosity rises as temperatures fall, so more work and more fuel is required to overcome friction in the powertrain.

"It's actually a single cooling loop with multiple circuits," said Brett Hinds, manager of Ford EcoBoost engine development. "We [variably] block coolant to the radiator [when the engine is cold] to warm up the engine block sooner while still allowing coolant to flow to the heads [which sit on top of the engine block over the cylinders]."

The spit cooling system will debut on Ford's new 1-liter three-cylinder EcoBoost engine coming to Ford's small cars, but in a case of trickle-up engineering, it will migrate to other vehicles.

kpcart · 03-06-2011, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

This is great news! http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06...ng-system.html

has anyone here driven a car with 8 speed? from what i have read on lexus and bmw 8speed - it seems that 8 might be too much, with the gearbox constantly 'searching' for the right gear making it a bit unpleasant for the driver (the engine pitch keeps changing, and you can still feel the shifts). i thought those F- trucks from Ford have already have 8 speed boxes? i remember reading in a popular mechanics magazine about how some american pickup trucks can overdrive each gear on a 4 speed box, making 8 total.

chevypower · 03-06-2011, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

has anyone here driven a car with 8 speed? from what i have read on lexus and bmw 8speed - it seems that 8 might be too much, with the gearbox constantly 'searching' for the right gear making it a bit unpleasant for the driver (the engine pitch keeps changing, and you can still feel the shifts). i thought those F- trucks from Ford have already have 8 speed boxes? i remember reading in a popular mechanics magazine about how some american pickup trucks can overdrive each gear on a 4 speed box, making 8 total.

All current F-series trucks have 6 speed autos. I have heard about that aftermarket accessory you are talking about, it's like an extra gear behind the transmission or something, it alternates between two gears each time the tranny shifts. Stick that on an 8 speed, and it would give you 16 gears, couple that with the 4x4 low-range, and you have 32 gears!

jpd80 · 03-06-2011, 06:07 AM

A few years ago, those very same fears were expressed about using 6-speed auto boxes and yet, here we are.

EgoFG · 03-06-2011, 07:21 AM

I often think that a nice tall gear above 6th would be great out of town

**Charliewool** · 03-06-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

has anyone here driven a car with 8 speed? from what i have read on lexus and bmw 8speed - it seems that 8 might be too much, with the gearbox constantly 'searching' for the right gear making it a bit unpleasant for the driver (the engine pitch keeps changing, and you can still feel the shifts). i thought those F- trucks from Ford have already have 8 speed boxes? i remember reading in a popular mechanics magazine about how some american pickup trucks can overdrive each gear on a 4 speed box, making 8 total.

I have a 7 speed auto... It's the most positive shifting, precise auto I've driven.. Never "searching" for the right gear.. And this is after owning a 6 speed ZF, which I always thought was the ultimate.

spvd02 · 03-06-2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

has anyone here driven a car with 8 speed? from what i have read on lexus and bmw 8speed - it seems that 8 might be too much, with the gearbox constantly 'searching' for the right gear making it a bit unpleasant for the driver (the engine pitch keeps changing, and you can still feel the shifts). i thought those F- trucks from Ford have already have 8 speed boxes? i remember reading in a popular mechanics magazine about how some american pickup trucks can overdrive each gear on a 4 speed box, making 8 total.

Hey, at least it's not a manual! Now that could get unpleasant..

Wretched · 03-06-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

I have a 7 speed auto... It's the most positive shifting, precise auto I've driven.. Never "searching" for the right gear.. And this is after owning a 6 speed ZF, which I always thought was the ultimate.

Have to agree with you on that.
The 7spd DSG in the polo makes up for the small amount of power.
The car never feels under powered and is always in the right gear.

I'd like to see this make its way into Falcons too.

flappist · 03-06-2011, 08:29 AM

I have driven several ISFs and they are magic.

In wander about mode they only have one gear and it never changes, but the tacho seems to be broken as it does not move very much and there is silence under the bonnet.

In woohoo mode suddenly there is huge roar, the tacho jumps all over the place and in almost no time the speedo reads "start walking now".

The 7 speed DCT in the bimmers is the same except in the M3 (and M5) where a diploma in "Advanced Playstation 3" is required before starting the vehicle.

Resurrection · 03-06-2011, 08:39 AM

I'd love to have an 8-speed auto in my Falcon.

icer · 03-06-2011, 10:54 AM

is it a mountain bike or something? ... all these gears...

**TUF_302** · 03-06-2011, 10:58 AM

Sounds like a good box to put behind our beloved Falcons!, the S/C GT would go nicely with one of these

Zero_PSI · 03-06-2011, 10:58 AM

Mums Audi has a 7 speed. I think it's a nicer qnd smoother change than the zf. Also theres alot less delay when you put the hammer down compared to the btr or zf.

mik · 03-06-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

Have to agree with you on that.
The 7spd DSG in the polo makes up for the small amount of power.
The car never feels under powered and is always in the right gear.

I'd like to see this make its way into Falcons too.

i have to say a while ago i was sceptical about the value of 7&8 speed boxes over a 6 speed, after looking a recent road test between 5 cars of which one of the bunch was not the lightest and fitted with a modest power unit and yet it performed very well, looking at the gearing it became obvious why it did so well, i must confess the reliability/durability would worry me though.

EgoFG · 03-06-2011, 01:12 PM

So ..... where do CVTs fit in this discussion
I think the Lancer is - yes ?

phillyc · 03-06-2011, 01:23 PM

I can see the split cooling coming to the Orion 6 some time soon. With a large iron block and alloy cylinder head it could really benefit from that tech.

An 8 speed automatic gearbox would be magic. Another potential 6 per cent economy gain would be well worth it.

MexicanBatman · 03-06-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoFG

So ..... where do CVTs fit in this discussion
I think the Lancer is - yes ?

I believe the Lexus 8spd is a cvt

I have driven a 7spd cvt, but in a cvt gears are just a program as there can be many more as it's variable so they select 6-8 preset steps to emulate an old stepped transmission

I think 7 gears would be the limit for a car with a decent torque spread, but it would be a great benefit to small cars

kaniSS · 03-06-2011, 02:10 PM

What is the point of having it on Australian roads? We don't have an autobahn and no doubt the bleeding hearts will try to drop the 110 speed limits in the near future.

Ben73 · 03-06-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

I believe the Lexus 8spd is a cvt

I have driven a 7spd cvt, but in a cvt gears are just a program as there can be many more as it's variable so they select 6-8 preset steps to emulate an old stepped transmission

I think 7 gears would be the limit for a car with a decent torque spread, but it would be a great benefit to small cars

What's a 7 speed CVT.
I have a CVT. Its classed as 1 speed.

It sucks. There is a massive delay when you put your foot down.
Accelerating it holds the RPM at a particular places and doesn't move much.

I can shift it over to 'manual' shift, but then it just mimics a 6 speed. Doesn't mimic it very well though.

Ill never own a CVT again. Can't wait to get rid of mine.

|Nate · 03-06-2011, 07:31 PM

Hmmm, I'd love to put an 8 speed in my EB hahaha.
Itd have to be pretty good to beat the good ol' 4 speed.

**DFB FGXR6** · 03-06-2011, 07:35 PM

I wouldnt be suprised if these 7 and 8 speed autos start of in second and not allow the top gears to be selected untill 110km/h +. So in effect they are 6 speed auto's then. No doubt they help with economy and performance. Wouldnt be holding my breath about seeing it in a Falcon any time soon.

Road_Warrior · 03-06-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

What's a 7 speed CVT.
I have a CVT. Its classed as 1 speed.

It sucks. There is a massive delay when you put your foot down.
Accelerating it holds the RPM at a particular places and doesn't move much.

I can shift it over to 'manual' shift, but then it just mimics a 6 speed. Doesn't mimic it very well though.

Ill never own a CVT again. Can't wait to get rid of mine.

I had a CVT Lancer for a while from Fleet. It was woeful. The driving experience was like driving a manual with a slipping clutch.

naddis01 · 03-06-2011, 09:11 PM

I drive a CVT almost everyday. In a tractor ha ha. They are the best thing that has happened in transmission technology for agriculture. I would never go back to a powershift or synchro after having a CVT.

In a car though I can see how they would not be the most enjoyable gearboxes around. The constant engine RPM while accelerating might get a little monotonous.

Bossxr8 · 03-06-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I wouldnt be suprised if these 7 and 8 speed autos start of in second and not allow the top gears to be selected untill 110km/h +. So in effect they are 6 speed auto's then. No doubt they help with economy and performance. Wouldnt be holding my breath about seeing it in a Falcon any time soon.

Why, the 6 speed auto used in the F series is the same one used in the Territory diesel, which is near identical to the one in the Falcon, so if the F series gets it then it won't be hard to fit it in Falcon, depending on when they start making it of course.

The gear spread is only a bit larger in 7 and 8 speed autos, all the other gears are just stacked closer. The diff ratio can be lowered to bring the higher gears into play for Australian conditions.

The 6 speed ZF already defaults to start in 2nd gear.

MexicanBatman · 03-06-2011, 09:50 PM

why does everyone say the ZF starts in 2nd

i have owned my ZF car since day one brand new and its never taken off in 2nd, only when you manually select 2 it takes off in 2nd

maybe pre FG they did this but not anymore

GT-E · 03-06-2011, 09:59 PM

You generally will not notice it taking off in 2nd. If you floor it it will start in 1st. They start in 2nd to make it smoother takeoff

Ben73 · 03-06-2011, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

why does everyone say the ZF starts in 2nd

i have owned my ZF car since day one brand new and its never taken off in 2nd, only when you manually select 2 it takes off in 2nd

maybe pre FG they did this but not anymore

Not just ZF do it. There are all different autos that do it.

On the rodeo I used to drive there was a switch on the dash to start off in 3rd

MexicanBatman · 03-06-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-E

You generally will not notice it taking off in 2nd. If you floor it it will start in 1st. They start in 2nd to make it smoother takeoff

no it does not do it.

i can take off light throttle then press further slightly and it will still be in first

even on very light throttle it takes off in 1st you can always feel it change into 2nd, every time

i can tell the difference if i take off in 2nd even on real light throttle

and yes other cars do it also, i had a mercedes then did the 2-1 thing its **** and annoying and there was nothing you could do, that always took off in 2nd even flat to the floor then kicked back to 1st.. LOL

kpcart · 04-06-2011, 06:45 AM

is it true that in a 6 speed box, the last 2 gears are often overdriven?

I remember when the falcon 4 speed auto came out. it had the same ratios as the older 3 speed, with a 4th speed overdriven. so the 4th gear ratio was lower than 1 (.6 or something), which improved highway economy imensely.

In the ZF 6 speed are the last 2 gears overdriven, and if so does this make it a real 6 gear gearbox, or is it just a 6-spead box with 4 gears?? i guess this lets you bunch the other 4 ratios closer to improve evonomy.

is that the same case with 7 and 8 speed boxes, and that they only really have 4 or 5 gears? overdriven gears for boxes with 7 or 8 total would be great on autobahns, but do they really help in australia? i guess they would bunch the lower gears closer, but i would imagine that would make the ride less comfortable with more changing? but then i guess modern gearboxes must be getting smoother with their changes.

The comments from people who have driven 7 speed boxes seem to be positive, maybe i will just have to drive one myself to get my answers.

**DFB FGXR6** · 04-06-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

no it does not do it.

i can take off light throttle then press further slightly and it will still be in first

even on very light throttle it takes off in 1st you can always feel it change into 2nd, every time

i can tell the difference if i take off in 2nd even on real light throttle

and yes other cars do it also, i had a mercedes then did the 2-1 thing its **** and annoying and there was nothing you could do, that always took off in 2nd even flat to the floor then kicked back to 1st.. LOL

Agreed. My FG STARTS in FIRST no matter how much throttle is used.. I thought BF models started in second though?