Police Use Civilian's Cars as a Roadblock.... With the Occupants Still Inside !!

[EB#]

Sorry.... Just noticed the other thread (closed).
Perhaps a mod can delete this one.



This is pretty stupid..... surely ??

A young motorist is furious after police used his vehicle as a road block to stop a high speed chase.
Police were attempting to end a chase on Melbourne's Hume Highway involving a man allegedly driving 'like a maniac' at speeds of up to 200km/h.

17-year-old student Madhawa Mapa says he's still trying to comprehend how police could use 'innocent civilian lives' as part of their road block.
Writing for The Age, Madhawa says a casual Saturday morning drive with his mother quickly turned into something more serious as police pulled flagged him down.

"The police officers exited their vehicle, and firmly instructed the traffic to form three lanes, occupying the emergency lane as well," he wrote.
"Before I knew it, there was a loud bang; a huge force to my back and I knew something had rammed into the back of my car. The offender's car then crashed into the concrete wall."

Madhawa says he feared for his life when he realised he was in the middle of a police operation, and the alleged offender may have been armed.
The drama unfolded after officers started to pursue a stolen car near Benalla on Saturday morning.

Police say the chase was called off after just three minutes because of safety concerns.
Officers then took the decision to stop traffic in a bid to block the road near Epping and slow down the speeding driver, who appeared to be heading for Melbourne.

David Rendina was in his car with his girlfriend and two kids when police directed him to stop in an emergency lane.
Mr Rendina was stopped at the end of a queue of three cars when he saw the speeding car approaching from behind.

"I pretty much knew I was a sitting duck. There's no other way for this speeding driver to go but into the emergency lanes," he said.
"I just remember visualising that and him speeding towards me and going, 'well, there's nothing I can do here'.

Assistant Commissioner Steve Fontana has says police were in a difficult position. He says they had to stop the car before it got close to the city out of fear someone would be killed.
"This guy was driving like a maniac to be quite frank," he told.

"This bloke was driving at alleged speeds up around 200 kilometres per hour on the freeway.
"They [officers] said if we don't stop this bloke he's going to kill someone and himself," he said.

Assistant Commissioner Fontana has ordered a review of the incident, but has defended the roadblock tactic.

"He had slowed right down. The tactic was actually working," he said.
"But I was a little bit concerned about the vehicles when you see them in the emergency lane. That's something we're looking at."


Link here:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/...-as-roadblock/

[RASER]

Interesting problem, the police had to think on there feet and stop this clown before he got off the Hwy and into residential streets.

I think they should have just opened fire on him and took him out of the gene pool

[Till_Lind]

Originally Posted by RASER

Interesting problem, the police had to think on there feet and stop this clown before he got off the Hwy and into residential streets.

I think they should have just opened fire on him and took him out of the gene pool

Though this roadblock bit might get investigated, firing off any shots would mean even more paperwork and severe investigation of why they fired.

[sudszy]

Not really sure what they could have/ should have done, obviously they hadn't given this "whatif" due consideration

Regardless, if they had spikes or some other way of blocking the road, how would they have dealt with the heavy stream of cars actually proceeding towards it.

They'd of had to have a control at least a couple of km ahead pulling everyone over and marking them park off the road(that could prove very difficult in itself when dealing with joe public), they'd all be in danger of being hit as this maniac wizzed past doing whatever speed he was. Spikes, maybe the answer if you can close both sides of the road, always the risk the thing could go anywhere after hitting those.


And of course having to to do all this in real time, if he was 10km away, that's only 3mins at 200km/h.

But the elephant in the room here? if the blockade didnt happen, how would this idiot have come to rest, and what other suggestions do people have on how they would have got the situation under control given they didnt have spikes or six trucks or enough patrol cars to block the road?

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by sudszy

and what other suggestions do people have on how they would have got the situation under control given they didnt have spikes or six trucks or enough patrol cars to block the road?

this...

Originally Posted by RASER

I think they should have just opened fire on him and took him out of the gene pool

imo, when he made the choice to try and evade the police he gave away any thoughts of it ending quietly.

id rather see one crim' full of bullets than an innocent family wiped out being used as a roadblock. which could very easily have happened.

i dont like to bag the police, they deal with scumbags 24/7 and do what 95% of us couldnt do. but in this instance i think they dropped the ball majorly.

[Ducati888]

They followed him in the chopper from Benalla IIRC. Is that not enough time for the police to organise something? Man, they are breeding them dumb these days. And they give them guns.

[chamb0]

Just to play devil's advocate. Reading between the lines, there doesn't seem to have been much time between the cars being stopped and the arrival of the offender. At a guess the police felt at the time there was less risk involved keeping people inside the cars than having them de-bus (presumably to shelter behind the barricade). In the chaos of the moment and with little time to act there is the potential for not just stray pedestrians on the road but some people having difficulties in vaulting over the barricade in time - the elderly, kids and someone with a disability for example.

Originally Posted by Ducati888

They followed him in the chopper from Benalla IIRC. Is that not enough time for the police to organise something? Man, they are breeding them dumb these days. And they give them guns.

Easy to say for us, but so far we really only have only scant information from a few newspaper articles to go on. One thing you can bet on is there were many layers of complexity playing into the equation on the day. It'll be interesting to hear the outcome of the formal investigation... until then all we can do is speculate.

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by RASER

Interesting problem, the police had to think on there feet and stop this clown before he got off the Hwy and into residential streets.

I think they should have just opened fire on him and took him out of the gene pool

I recently saw a youtube vid (somewhere in America of course) of an interesting pursuit in an urban area captured on police dash-mounted cam... a single cop in the car, one hand on the wheel, other hand brassing up the offender's car with an assault rifle...

[FG_Frodza]

Originally Posted by chamb0

I recently saw a youtube vid (somewhere in America of course) of an interesting pursuit in an urban area captured on police dash-mounted cam... a single cop in the car, one hand on the wheel, other hand brassing up the offender's car with an assault rifle...

Gotta love American police chases.

What if he hits a pothole and a stray bullet goes straight into your head when your driving the other way.

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by FG_Frodza

What if he hits a pothole and a stray bullet goes straight into your head when your driving the other way.

Well, then your surviving relatives can sue the road authority for lack of proper maintenance...

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

this...




imo, when he made the choice to try and evade the police he gave away any thoughts of it ending quietly.

id rather see one crim' full of bullets than an innocent family wiped out being used as a roadblock. which could very easily have happened.

i dont like to bag the police, they deal with scumbags 24/7 and do what 95% of us couldnt do. but in this instance i think they dropped the ball majorly.

Would you like to be specific on how they take him out while he is on a public highway doing 200km/h? while in pursuit with handgun out the window, other office leaning out with shotty, or camped on top of over pass with sniper's rifle?

They put a bullet through his head, then what happens to the car that is doing 200km/h bearing down on joe public ahead of it?

They shoot out a tyre and the car goes where?
of course all the highway patrol can shoot better than any marksman alive

[mik]

sounds a bit like a starsky and hutch move, should have done a dirty harry harry instead .

[JC]

Why didn't the occupants have time to get out of the cars? Good thinking by the coppers, I reckon, except for the people still in the car bit (but then maybe he got there faster than they thought).

[Keepleft]

If I had 'family' in the car at the time - no way, sorry.

A person or family who is so used by the state, and injured/killed/suffers otherwise (wrecked car/emotional stuff/time off work etc) should consider legal action.

If you volunteer your car and your clear of it, and its wrecked, other avenues for claim arise.

[graham7773]

I like the American method where the cops cars have very solid nudge bars built into the front of their cars. they give the offenders car a nudge on the rear quarter and the car goes sideways or rolls. The offenders car usually does not travel very far after it rolls etc. And it is usually done where there is little or no risk to other road users. Or an RPG to his/her fuel tank?

[megaphat]

They had people IN the cars during the roadblock? This sounds absolutely insane. From what I can tell, it appears to be an absolutely callous disregard for safety.

[ozrunner]

Yes it does seem to indicate that the Police made a snap decision and considered they had no other options but IMHO what they did was insane and they are extremely lucky that no innocent parties lost their lives.

To make such a decision on the spur of the moment when there could be so many "what ifs" in place that couldn't be nullified in time is just plain stupidty.

What if, the last cars in line had babies/kids in the back seat etc etc.

But worst, the driver obviously was a fruitbat and what if, given his now predicament he made a snap decision to not slow down and basically now had a death wish and slammed into all these stationary cars at 200kph.

Why were they assuming he WOULD slow down ?. That thought obviously never crossed their minds and it could have been an absolute disarster.

The video footage was amazing. A cop directs the young dude to stop whilst she's standing in the middle of the road !!! and then bang the car hits. Then she gets her pad and tells the guy to move over here and finally asks if they are ok. Gawd it looked like she was then about to book him for obstructing traffic.

As others have said no freaking way would I have put my family or friends at risk, not to mention make a decision to perhaps have my car totalled.

Its a catch 22 and very easy to criticise after the event but at worst they perhaps should have had the front Police car/s continue to drive but then bank up all the others so it became a rolling traffic jam and then slow it down etc to nail him.

But to STOP cars on a freeway to make a stationary roadblock with a crazy coming at them at 200kph was just plain stupidity and insane.

[BHDOGS]

Ah yes the age old question take away the polices right to enforce laws with watered down powers to spare some criminals there lives eg no pitting not allowed above a certain speed no shooting tyres and anarchy will rain just ask Britain I guess people are gonna have to choose Wether they want police who enforce laws with force or peace officers who try to babysit people's stupidity this was clearly a bad judgement call however had something been allowed immediately at starting of chase this wouldn't of occurred but what about all th what ifs tho oh my the what ifs could fill a building time to stop thinking what if and get back to just ******* do it

[saam]

Not an easy call to make, would the people be safer inside their cabin or out around in the elements ?

I suppose the police thought that the speeding car in question would have not been travelling at a full 200k and coming to a complete stop rather than slowing down alot and tapping into something before stoping ...

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Damned if they did. Damned if they didn't.

And now the couch experts, with the benefit of time and lack of pressure, will say what they should and shouldn't have done.

Man, I'm glad I'm not a copper in this day and age.......

My hat off to those who provide such a wonderful community service

Craig H

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

The video footage was amazing. A cop directs the young dude to stop whilst she's standing in the middle of the road !!! and then bang the car hits. Then she gets her pad and tells the guy to move over here and finally asks if they are ok. Gawd it looked like she was then about to book him for obstructing traffic.

Where did you find the footage? All I found was a dodgy Ch9 news segment which kept using the slightly misleading term 'human shields.' Jon Faine did an interview on ABC 774 which would be interesting to hear.

[BHDOGS]

Haha human shields what are they shielding are they terrorists?

[lockieoc]

Sounds like an expensive way to end a pursuit.
There is no way I would be sacrificing my car.

Just unload a round into that sucker!
or should just shoot at the petrol tank GTA style.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Would you like to be specific on how they take him out while he is on a public highway doing 200km/h? while in pursuit with handgun out the window, other office leaning out with shotty, or camped on top of over pass with sniper's rifle?

They put a bullet through his head, then what happens to the car that is doing 200km/h bearing down on joe public ahead of it?

They shoot out a tyre and the car goes where?
of course all the highway patrol can shoot better than any marksman alive

You'd need to be a pretty good shot, from a moving car, to hit a speeding car in front of you using a police revolver or a shotty. Both are accurate to about the end of your nose. Don't be fooled by what you see on TV. A shotty wouldn't go through a car's tyre at ten metres unless you use a solid. A pistol shot from a police revolver would need to be pretty good too. No way would it work from a moving car, especially by a passenger from the left using their left hand.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

Damned if they did. Damned if they didn't.

And now the couch experts, with the benefit of time and lack of pressure, will say what they should and shouldn't have done.

Man, I'm glad I'm not a copper in this day and age.......

My hat off to those who provide such a wonderful community service

Craig H

Rubbish. They are trained and they are paid. They are not heroes. no one makes them do it. Problem is most of the new breed are very stupid and are thugs as well.

If they were volunteers, I'd be with you on the community service thing, but they are not. CFA, SES, Salvos, scout leaders - that's community service.

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Rubbish. They are trained and they are paid. They are not heroes. no one makes them do it. Problem is most of the new breed are very stupid and are thugs as well.

If they were volunteers, I'd be with you on the community service thing, but they are not. CFA, SES, Salvos, scout leaders - that's community service.

Really? There stupid and thugs I guess they have to be stupid to put there life on the line to protect people like you who curse them when ur in trouble don't call the local thugs call the local crack heads to give you a hand

[Ducati888]

Yes, they are thugs and tax collectors, i've had first hand experience with Victoria's best and brightest in blue. More to the point - they are not interested in doing paperwork these days so will pass the buck if you do need them as well. They need a big shake up.

Like I said - no one makes them put their life on the line. They get trained and paid. No one forces them to join up, and if they didn't understand what they were getting themselves in to then they would be even dumber than I think they are.

[EDManual]

200km/h on the hume, so what, thats not dangerous as long as he is driving to the conditions. He slowed down and didnt really hurt anyone so had some brain...which the cops counted on that he would do.
They really should have just called the chopper off and let him go, he obviously did not have a death wish so would have slowed down himself.

And what a joke when they say the pursuit is called off when cars stop chasing, the chopper still is so it is still a pursuit and the offender would know its there so keep being a bit risky.

The pursuit is was causes these guys to be risky. Its not as if just cos it was a stolen car makes it a certain death unless stopped. In fact its probably never that it is unless the cops get involved, then its a certain crash at least!!

[mltezr]

mmm wonder who would pay the excess for the claim then

[Ducati888]

The methodology is supposed to be for harm minimisation. If there is any threat to the public then it should not proceed, at the expense of losing the perp if necessary. The motto "Tenez Le Droit" (uphold the right) implies (according to the VicPol Style Guide) upholding personal and community safety, not putting them at risk.

They failed this one big time.