Lights

[prydey]

I do shift work and so travel at night every day. Without fail, I would see at least 1-2 cars every day driving without lights. This is something that seems to be on the rise especially now with most cars having DRL's because it can appear the lights are actually on.

I believe this first started becoming an issue with dash lights were no longer connected to driving lights. Once upon a time, you had to have your lights on to illuminate the dash. That meant that it became pretty obvious pretty quick to the driver if the lights weren't on. These day, dash lights come on with ignition, so at night, your dash is all fully lit up so there is no obvious signal to turn your lights on.

To me though, its just more evidence that many drivers just aren't focussed on just simply driving/operating the car anymore. Too many distractions.

Another bugbear of mine regarding lights, is AUTO lights and why people don't use them when the car clearly has them. I really can't see why people don't like using their lights. Lights are just as much about being seen as it is about being able to see. My folks used to not use auto lights because they didn't like them coming on when entering underground parking etc. I explained they turn off automatically when locking the car so its fine. It's not like you are wasting batteries etc like when using a torch.

As an aside, I notice with the new escape, the default light position is auto. Great move by Ford. Other makes may do it as well. I certainly hope so. Even if you move it, it defaults back to auto when ignition is reset. Another great move by Ford (and hopefully others) is the lights come on when you activate your wipers. The amount of people i see driving in inclement weather without lights is astounding.

Another bugbear, and hopefully one that will eventually be improved, is why DRL's are only operational on the front of a vehicle. At least if they are on the back as well, when drivers forget to turn lights on, the back of the car will also be illuminated. After all, that is essentially why DRL's exist. The inability of drivers remembering to turn on lights, or recognising when lights need to be used. Volvo were well ahead of their time...

[slowsnake]

Funny that you mention vehicle lighting, just yesterday on 3 occasions I had to cross a very busy road every time I do it I freak, but yesterday 3 motorbikes without headlights?...now I thought they were automatic when ignition is on and bike started, but either they had an override function or they did it manually? Illegally of course, I dident see one dude, but only noticed the sun reflecting off a bit of chromework!
Push bikes I get lots of, but flashing rear light but nothing on the front?

[BENT_8]

Modern cars have a light on the cluster to show if the headlights are on or off.
I dont use auto lights as having them come on and off all the time when unnecessary would surely shorten the bulbs life expectancy, we got by for decades without auto lights and drl's, in fact i remember people hanging **** on Volvo's back in the day for having constant lights on.
These things are marketed as safety features by the same manufacturers that did away with amber indicator lenses and fitted weird shaped lights that often leave you guessing where the indicator is and then if its actually operating or if thats just the suns reflection on some fake chrome trim.
Its just another gimmick and could be argued that having drl's and auto lights adds to the lack of actual control and required concentration to operate the vehicle safely.

[mad2]

Her Fairymont has auto lights [as mine will ..... eventually] & i always turn em off . . . inadvertently . but especially so when reversing so i can see what's behind me.

i have also noticed with the indicators on the rear of some 4x4's that due to the amount of room for the taillights that the indicator travels around the housing leaving only a short 'flash' when seen from the rear.

[Metdevil]

I usually drive with my headlights on when it's cloudy/foggy (as well as dark, obviously) because my car is silver. Silver cars like to blend in with such things as clouds, rain, fog, and just roads in general.
This is something that most silver-car-owners seem to be completely unaware of for some reason...

As for auto headlights, I hate it and never use it, mainly because they're not on when I want them on. As you said, headlights are just as much for being seen as they are for being able to see, so you need them on more than just when it's dark.

In saying this, I also hate how often I do drive with my headlights on for a number of reasons; halogens having such a short lifespan, the FG's lights being a pain to replace, and risking the FG deciding it doesn't need an ICC every time you disconnect the battery being a few of them.
I was thinking of installing aftermarket DRLs to save replacing halogen bulbs so often.

Also, can we just get rid of park lights? I hate it when people think that park lights are good enough for being seen. Park lights are not visible in rain or fog, they also give a false perspective of how far away you are. Are you 50 meters away with your headlights on? Or are there two lost campers with flat AA's in their torches standing on the footpath?
Judging a gap on a foggy morning comes down almost entirely to the headlights of approaching cars, especially when those cars are silver, white, or grey.

Please stop using park lights as 'pre-headlights'...

[prydey]

Parkers are for parking. They're essentially clearance lights for when you're stopped on the side of the road.

Auto lights doesn't mean you have to choose one or the other when you drive. I often turn my lights on in the Territory (as above, any weather that isn't sunny) but the default position is still the auto position.

Lifespan of globes is a non issue for me. If turning on and off really shortened the life substantially then indicators would be failing all the time, which they don't.

I believe lights are a safety feature, not a gimmick. Yes, there was a long period of time prior to auto lights and drls and the road toll was also substantially higher.

[BENT_8]

Agree on parkers, should just be for parking, having said that our work vehicles are wired to come on with ignition so no choice but when i get out of the city i go main beam for visibility, i just dont bother with the auto option and do the same in my personal cars.

I think ive replaced maybe a handful of indicator globes in my life, headlight globes a lot more often, particularly in Ford branded vehicles so i think there is a difference between a globe designed to flash and a globe that is either on or off.

So you think drl's and auto lights have contributed to the lowering of the road toll, how do you differentiate that from traction control, dynamic stability control, aeb, lane keep, traffic sign recognition, cross traffic alert, dual fronts as standard, head and thorax airbags and a raft of other safety specific aids that were introduced in the period since auto lights and drl's became a feature?

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by prydey

Parkers are for parking. They're essentially clearance lights for when you're stopped on the side of the road.

I feel like this is an archaic use for them. I don't think I've ever seen a car parked up with their park lights on. People just use them as a step between off and on. IE, "it's getting dark, but not dark enough for headlights, better use the park lights".
Interesting fact, in some states of the USA, it's actually illegal to use park lights while driving. That's a law change I can get behind.

Originally Posted by prydey

Auto lights doesn't mean you have to choose one or the other when you drive. I often turn my lights on in the Territory (as above, any weather that isn't sunny) but the default position is still the auto position.

Yea, I get that, but on the FG I have to go past 'Off' to toggle between On and Auto. Might as well just have it on when I want them on and off when I want them off rather than flashing my lights at oncoming vehicles when going between Auto and On.
When I first got the car, I just found that I was having to turn them on any way because Auto wasn't doing it. Left it on Auto when I turned them off and they would turn off and on randomly as I drove under trees.

Originally Posted by prydey

Lifespan of globes is a non issue for me. If turning on and off really shortened the life substantially then indicators would be failing all the time, which they don't.

The indicators are incandescent, aren't they? Not halogen?

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So you think drl's and auto lights have contributed to the lowering of the road toll, how do you differentiate that from traction control, dynamic stability control, aeb, lane keep, traffic sign recognition, cross traffic alert, dual fronts as standard, head and thorax airbags and a raft of other safety specific aids that were introduced in the period since auto lights and drl's became a feature?

Makes you wonder, if these features are safety features and not gimmicks, why many of them are considered 'premium' or 'optional' features.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So you think drl's and auto lights have contributed to the lowering of the road toll, how do you differentiate that from traction control, dynamic stability control, aeb, lane keep, traffic sign recognition, cross traffic alert, dual fronts as standard, head and thorax airbags and a raft of other safety specific aids that were introduced in the period since auto lights and drl's became a feature?

Yes, I do think vehicle lighting has improved car visibility on the roads. You can't attribute a percentage to any one feature or advancement.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Yes, I do think vehicle lighting has improved car visibility on the roads. You can't attribute a percentage to any one feature or advancement.

No doubt they have but not to the degree of active safety systems introduced in the same period
The 60's saw mandatory indicators and seatbelts, i doubt the drastic reduction of deaths in those years was due to the indicator.

[fiestaz]

My boss thinks auto lights flatten batteries.

He also turns the air conditioner off a minute or two before stopping the car. Not sure why.

He bought a top of the line a Hyundai Santa Fe with all the bells and automatic whistles and uses none of it.

People are odd.

[prydey]

I still maintain that those not utilising their cars lighting properly are a safety hazzard and also illegal. This isn't about auto lights etc. That's just a feature that can improve the situation because obviously people do forget to turn lights on. This is about the number of cars on the road with no lights on. In my experience, it's getting worse.

[DJM83]

My Ute has auto lights.
I drive with lights on regardless of the time of day.
But yeah I definitely get the frustration. A lot of folks don't even know where the light switch is.

Dont care it shortens the life of them either.

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by prydey

I still maintain that those not utilising their cars lighting properly are a safety hazzard and also illegal. This isn't about auto lights etc. That's just a feature that can improve the situation because obviously people do forget to turn lights on. This is about the number of cars on the road with no lights on. In my experience, it's getting worse.

Personally, I believe your concerns are caused in part by auto lights.
We both agree that we often need our lights on more often than auto lights turns them on, so surely that means that people relying on the Auto setting are underutilising their lights.
With my experience with auto lights, I feel like they're contributing to the problem. Like you said, drivers aren't focused on operating their cars any more, well now headlights are a 'set and forget' feature.

The problem is also compounded with DRLs. A driver with DRLs and auto headlights has no reason to ever touch the headlight stalk for anything other than indicating. I'm not surprised that people aren't using their headlights properly if this is what they're used to.

[Fast Eddie]

Am I of the understanding that as soon as you switch your headlights on the DRL's are automatically switched off. I could swear I see vehicles with both of them illuminated. Are people doing some of their own backyard electrics?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie

Am I of the understanding that as soon as you switch your headlights on the DRL's are automatically switched off. I could swear I see vehicles with both of them illuminated. Are people doing some of their own backyard electrics?

factory DRL's are required to dim or turn off when headlights are turned on. This is an ADR requirement. Anything that doesn't operate in this fashion is illegal.

If only authorities policed all the road rules instead of just the lucrative ones. Maybe they aren't aware of the goldmine that is out there if they started policing lights and accessories. Don't get me started on fog lights, or even aftermarket lights mounted above the bonnet line on bullbars etc.

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie

Am I of the understanding that as soon as you switch your headlights on the DRL's are automatically switched off. I could swear I see vehicles with both of them illuminated. Are people doing some of their own backyard electrics?

A lot of aftermarket ones come on with the key on accessory. So yea, they stay on the whole time.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Metdevil

Personally, I believe your concerns are caused in part by auto lights.
We both agree that we often need our lights on more often than auto lights turns them on, so surely that means that people relying on the Auto setting are underutilising their lights.
With my experience with auto lights, I feel like they're contributing to the problem. Like you said, drivers aren't focused on operating their cars any more, well now headlights are a 'set and forget' feature.

The problem is also compounded with DRLs. A driver with DRLs and auto headlights has no reason to ever touch the headlight stalk for anything other than indicating. I'm not surprised that people aren't using their headlights properly if this is what they're used to.

At least with auto lights, the lights would be on. That's the point.

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by prydey

At least with auto lights, the lights would be on. That's the point.

Except in inclement weather, which was another point of yours.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Itsme]

In simple terms modern technology is dumbing down drivers awareness and responsibility.
Drivers should be taught to be more aware when getting behind the steering wheel.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Metdevil

Except in inclement weather, which was another point of yours.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

The main point was the number of cars driving without lights on at night. How people use their lights at other times is more a people problem than a car problem. Many people think that if they can see they don't need lights.

[BENT_8]

I dont have a problem with having lights on for visibility, my gripe is that people relying on the car doing it for them via DRL's or auto lights.
Its like blind spot monitor, another gimmick to aleviate the drivers need to pay attention and turn their head.
If you'd rather a little red light on your mirror decide if its safe to change lanes rather than pick a safe moment to turn your head then driving probably isnt your thing.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie

Am I of the understanding that as soon as you switch your headlights on the DRL's are automatically switched off. I could swear I see vehicles with both of them illuminated. Are people doing some of their own backyard electrics?

Not always... On my VF2 Redline, the DRL's turn off when the lights turn on, whereas on the wives MY21 Sorento GT Line, the DRL's do dimmer when the headlights go on (and act as Parking lights). They are also the indicators on the front.. Out WK2 Jeep was the same previously.

As for OP - I dont get why people who have Automatic Light's as an option dont use them. Both our cars have them, and we keep them both in that setting at all times..

[fiestaz]

My focus st has auto lights. And that’s the setting they stay in.

I don’t know how common the feature is, but it also has a function where if the auto wipers are activated and it’s raining enough, it turns the headlights on. Super neat feature.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont have a problem with having lights on for visibility, my gripe is that people relying on the car doing it for them via DRL's or auto lights.
Its like blind spot monitor, another gimmick to aleviate the drivers need to pay attention and turn their head.
If you'd rather a little red light on your mirror decide if its safe to change lanes rather than pick a safe moment to turn your head then driving probably isnt your thing.

Exactly, I pulled up next to a driver in the dark at a set of traffic lights and told her lights were not on; she thought they were on until she realised her light switch on the stalk was not set to auto.
This is what I mean by technology dumbing down people.

Cheers.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont have a problem with having lights on for visibility, my gripe is that people relying on the car doing it for them via DRL's or auto lights.
Its like blind spot monitor, another gimmick to aleviate the drivers need to pay attention and turn their head.
If you'd rather a little red light on your mirror decide if its safe to change lanes rather than pick a safe moment to turn your head then driving probably isnt your thing.

It's not technologies fault that it makes some drivers lazy.

The fact is, no human is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. Anyone who says they don't is a liar. It's that simple. Technology can save lives. Don't blame technology for making some drivers lazy.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont have a problem with having lights on for visibility, my gripe is that people relying on the car doing it for them via DRL's or auto lights.
Its like blind spot monitor, another gimmick to aleviate the drivers need to pay attention and turn their head.
If you'd rather a little red light on your mirror decide if its safe to change lanes rather than pick a safe moment to turn your head then driving probably isnt your thing.

So we are looking at a new Tuscan N Line for my better half.
It has that driving aid, and many many more.
Are you impying myself or her are relying on blind spot monitoring?
It's part of new a lot of new cars these days. We want the high end model, I'm not going to buy a lower spec car to lack out on the other features we want.

[Streets]

Counted about 12 cars with no headlights in a 10-minute period on my way home from work the other night just after dusk. There were more but I stopped counting. The past five or so years I've noticed people getting worse and worse at managing their lights. On the one hand there's people who don't put them on at all and on the other you have the suburban 4x4 heroes who blind everyone else in traffic with their aftermarket lights like they're crossing the Nullabor or something.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Streets

Counted about 12 cars with no headlights in a 10-minute period on my way home from work the other night just after dusk. There were more but I stopped counting. The past five or so years I've noticed people getting worse and worse at managing their lights. On the one hand there's people who don't put them on at all and on the other you have the suburban 4x4 heroes who blind everyone else in traffic with their aftermarket lights like they're crossing the Nullabor or something.

So it's not just me then.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by DJM83

So we are looking at a new Tuscan N Line for my better half.
It has that driving aid, and many many more.
Are you impying myself or her are relying on blind spot monitoring?
It's part of new a lot of new cars these days. We want the high end model, I'm not going to buy a lower spec car to lack out on the other features we want.

Not at all, but thats what the manufacturer wants you to believe you need whereas a simple head check will do the same thing.
They put these things in to high end models to encourage you to pay more, if it was purely about safety they'd put them in all spec levels.

Car manufacturers use different angles to market their product, my earliest recollection was the 80's where luggage space was a key point in advertising, the 90's saw kilowatts as the pitch, the 2000's was a shift to SUV versatility and more recently its been active and passive safety systems.
Dont get me wrong, airbags save lives, abs helps pedal mashers when panic sets in, but a little light to tell you not to change lanes, please.
They tell you what you need and provide a product to suit.

If you accidently broke your drivers mirror glass rendering the blind spot warning sign inoperable would you refrain from changing lanes until it worked again or just resort back to what we've done for over 100 years?