Brake Problem in AUI

OldManGhia · 22-06-2006, 05:05 PM

I have had an on going brake problem that no one seems to be able to fix. The car is a standard AUI ie no ABS. Rotors & pads have been changed and last week the master cylinder was reconditioned. Before that when the brakes were bled through the brake pedal would be high and little effort was needed to stop. What was happening was that after a period of about 6-8 weeks the brakes go soft and spongie and could be pumped up. Since the master cylinder was done the brakes are now soft and spongie although they dont pump up like they used to. Just got the car back again today abd they say they cant find any thing wrong with it.

Has anyone experienced anything like this? Also those of you with an AUI, how would you describe your brakes when you apply them? How much peddle travel and how firm are they?

I6corp · 22-06-2006, 05:21 PM

Hmm sounds strange to me... my brakes are hard and firm, and very little pedal travel!

Maybe the single piston?

GK · 22-06-2006, 05:52 PM

I thought every AU had abs!

GK

AWD Chaser · 22-06-2006, 06:03 PM

I thought that even the EL had abs....

**Mechan1k** · 22-06-2006, 06:12 PM

most AU utes don't have ABS.

Tried braided lines and see if that firms the brakes up ... also there's a vacuum line from the brake master cylinder (going somewhere .... can't remember for the life of me) ... make sure it is connected firmly ... and not leaking as well).

bodes-sh · 22-06-2006, 06:34 PM

el's did have abs, but it was an option on them and an option on au1 forte's, all other au models apart from the utes had them standard, then from au2 they were all standard i think. as for the problem, i dunno, sorry

poolkeeper · 22-06-2006, 06:42 PM

I've got an au1 ute. the brakes in mine are shocking, I have alot of travel and they do not seem to firm up. Im bedazzled with my brakes 2. Will new slotted rotors help?

OldManGhia · 22-06-2006, 07:16 PM

Ive been thinking along the lines of vacuum & or booster. The plastic booster is about the only thing that hasn't been touched.

**Mechan1k** · 22-06-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D1XR2C

I've got an au1 ute. the brakes in mine are shocking, I have alot of travel and they do not seem to firm up. Im bedazzled with my brakes 2. Will new slotted rotors help?

I put slotted rotors on my AUII ute ... and that has the twin piston calipers ... but it is not as firm as I like ... I have gotten into an AUII with braided lines and slotted rotors ... and damn ... the brake response and pedal feel and firmness was very confidence inspiring.

FTG does the braided line kits for $250 or $280 from memory for the AUs.

XR82GO · 22-06-2006, 07:27 PM

My AU1 XR6 has rotor problems...keep on warping on the left....but the peddle is great...firm all the time...putting slotted rotors on soon

OldManGhia · 22-06-2006, 08:33 PM

Another thing is, I had the car to Brakepoint and he also said that the brakes were ok. He did a brake test and on this new tool they have and it measured the braking pressure on each wheel then combined the results to give a front/rear Bias. My AU had 88% on the front and 12% on the rear. Anyone have any idea what the Bias should be? From what I have been reading the wagon should have more rear bias than a sedan which makes me think they haven't done the master cylinder with the correct BIAS? Im really guessing though.

AUXRVIII · 22-06-2006, 08:55 PM

Check for siezed brake caliper slides, this can cause a pedal to slowly give a spongy feel, also when pumped hard the caliper will move on the slide to give a good pedal but eventually go spongy again after a while.

mik · 22-06-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU98C-Wagon

Ive been thinking along the lines of vacuum & or booster. The plastic booster is about the only thing that hasn't been touched.

how many ks has your car done?

MOOSEXR6 · 23-06-2006, 12:27 AM

Mate,
It's great to hear the my brake issues are not just part of my imagination.
I also have an AU11 XR6 ute, and I'm utterly disappointed with the stopping performance, so much to the extent that if I'm not on the ball, I could easily not make a red light in time!! I've had a couple of close ones!!
Took it to the Ford service centre for a brake noise complaint (chaffing,grinding on slow brake), found no probs, plenty of meat on pads, rotors looked ok. This is another ongoing story.
So I asked for the technician's opinion on the stopping performance, but he didn't get too excited at all. he said previous owner probably fitted cheap pads.
What i wanna know is has anyone just replaced pads with premium ones and detected significant improvement. If so, what type of pad.
Slotted rotors sound good on paper, but do I need to go there just yet??
Cheers,
moosexr6

JC · 23-06-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

el's did have abs, but it was an option on them and an option on au1 forte's, all other au models apart from the utes had them standard, then from au2 they were all standard i think. as for the problem, i dunno, sorry

Our AU2 Forte wagon does not have ABS. My AU1 XR8 does. Why do people guess at things and think that what they are saying is the truth. If someone asks a specific question about something, if you don't KNOW, your guesses just end up adding to the confusion. I am talking specifically about the guesses that all AU2s etc have ABS. WRONG!

Now, back to the real topic, my bet is on the calliper slides. I had a hole in my left front rubber dust cover on the slide, and the brakes were crap. Took the callipers apart, cleaned them all up, replaced the leaky rubber bit and so far so good.

OldManGhia · 23-06-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

how many ks has your car done?

The car has done 154000 ks.

I should also mention that when the mechanic had the car yesterday he clamped off each wheel and it made no difference to peddle travel at all.

Also when the car was in for its last brake bleed in December he did find a problem with the front right caliper, but fixing that did not cure the problem.

GK · 23-06-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Our AU2 Forte wagon does not have ABS. My AU1 XR8 does. Why do people guess at things and think that what they are saying is the truth. If someone asks a specific question about something, if you don't KNOW, your guesses just end up adding to the confusion. I am talking specifically about the guesses that all AU2s etc have ABS. WRONG!

I guess I added to the confusion then! Or perhaps not, as I was pondering out loud! In any case, your comment about speculation is correct. If you don't know something is a fact, then you should state that, rather than pass off opinion or suspicions as fact!

:

I still am amazed that all AU's don't have ABS, that's darn stingy on Ford's part IMO!

GK

TheSneakiness · 23-06-2006, 10:29 AM

Pedal in my AUII is good, but doesn't pull up like it should (takes a little time, DBA slotted and Bendix CT pads) so I'm going to invest in braided lines soonish.

I also have a nasty squeal from one of the brakes on the drivers side when it's placed under "load" (I think it's the back driver's one, when I drive on something that isn't level), but I remember when Tibbo's mate was fitting them, that the pad didn't go in smoothly...

bodes-sh · 23-06-2006, 09:15 PM

does the pedal feel change when the outside temperature is colder or warmer? or is it the same regardless of the temperature?

mik · 23-06-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU98C-Wagon

The car has done 154000 ks.

I should also mention that when the mechanic had the car yesterday he clamped off each wheel and it made no difference to peddle travel at all.

Also when the car was in for its last brake bleed in December he did find a problem with the front right caliper, but fixing that did not cure the problem.

your car has a few k`s on it, there might be something else too check, i was looking at upgrading brake hoses on my au2 down the track and they mentioned spongey brakes from rubber brake hoses that are stretching when the pedal is applied, it might worth a look here is the site if your interested. www.braidedhoses.com.au

OldManGhia · 23-06-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

does the pedal feel change when the outside temperature is colder or warmer? or is it the same regardless of the temperature?

We have had 2 days of cool weather and rain, yesterday they were crap today they were better but still not good.

bodes-sh · 24-06-2006, 09:26 AM

ok, i was thinking it might be due to a brake fade problem, but if the weather is cool it shouldnt affect it as much, the only other thing, apart from brake lines, is maybe the master cylinder has had it or the booster has

zoomzoom · 24-06-2006, 10:07 AM

Check Your Brake Caliper Slides Make Sure They Are Not Seized

GK · 24-06-2006, 10:31 AM

I re read your intial post again and am wondering about the quality of the brake line bleed. If some air wasn't properly pumped out, that would add to a spongy pedal.

I'm just writing up a procedure for you to re bleed the brakes yourself. I'll even post pics, hang on!

GK

OldManGhia · 24-06-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

I re read your intial post again and am wondering about the quality of the brake line bleed. If some air wasn't properly pumped out, that would add to a spongy pedal.

I'm just writing up a procedure for you to re bleed the brakes yourself. I'll even post pics, hang on!

GK

The mechanic bled the brakes again the other day (Thursday) and said that he did get a small amount of air out of the system. However the brakes remained the same. On Friday they were very hit or miss, sometimes ok and other times not so. Today Saturday drove the car and the brakes felt good until about the 3rd time I started it and again now they are hit or miss, I am going to give it a few days now and try not to worry about it to much. It seems they maybe on the improve so time will tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

ok, i was thinking it might be due to a brake fade problem, but if the weather is cool it shouldnt affect it as much, the only other thing, apart from brake lines, is maybe the master cylinder has had it or the booster has

The master cylinder was reconditioned a week or so ago and the booster passes all tests that have been done on it.

GK · 24-06-2006, 11:19 AM

BRAKE BLEEDING PROCEDURE – STEP BY STEP WITH PICS

1. Get yourself a $12 brake bleeding tool, one with the little ball bearing in the one way valve. (See pic 1) Grab a few bottles (I used 3 to fully flush my lines) of Dot 4 brake fluid.

2. Get the other stuff you need. 8 or 10mm ring spanner, an old container to catch the fluid, and the factory wheel brace and jack. If you have safety stands great.

3. Bleed the lines in this order. LR (Left Rear), RR, LF and RF. This is so you bleed the lines farthest from the reservoir first to the closest last. (JC gave me this info a while back!)

4. Take off the wheel starting at LR and put on safety stands if you have them.

Bleed procedure
5. Take off the rubber brake bleeding nipple cover if it has one and attach the brake bleeding tool (see pics). It’s important that the white plastic is pushing down onto the nipple to make it seal correctly. Also, the spanner goes underneath this set up, to make opening and closing the nipple easier. In my pics I used an old oil container, but you can’t see the fluid in one of these. I just grabbed it because I was still in my PJ’s and I was in a hurry because it was cold in the shed. Last time I used a small ice cream container!

I know these pics are of my motorbike, but I wasn't pulling a wheel off the wagon to take a pic of a nipple etc, etc! LOL!

7. Pop the bonnet and open the brake fluid reservoir (so you can keep topping it up as you go). If it’s not at the full mark, fill it now.

8. Crack open the nipple (anti clockwise). Get your trusted mate to make constant strokes on the brake pedal, say 10, as you count them together.

You are watching the line of the brake bleeding tool at this stage to see if there are lots of bubbles, crud and or frothing in the line. When your mate gets about half way down the 10th stroke, close the nipple. He will fee the pedal tighten.

9. Re top up the brake fluid in the reservoir.

10. Repeat steps 8 & 9 until you are happy that the lines have no air in them, and are free from impurities. The fluid should be fully free of bubbles and have a constant colour. Sometimes there are a few little bubbles, as this is caused by the fluid going up and down in the bleeding tool line. Do the best you can.

11. Move from wheel to wheel as described in step 3.

12. When finished, re top up brake fluid reservoir, pop the lid back on and close bonnet. Your pedal should feel strong and firm.

GK

russky · 28-06-2006, 05:24 PM

Woah! Thank you for the effort describing how to do it! Was going to do it very soon, and know I understand it much better!

Thanks once again.

Alex

GK · 28-06-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russky

Woah! Thank you for the effort describing how to do it! Was going to do it very soon, and know I understand it much better!

Thanks once again.

Alex

No worries Alex, hope all goes well with the bleed!

GK

OldManGhia · 28-06-2006, 08:31 PM

UPDATE: Following the brake bleed last Thursday things seemed to improve. On Saturday they even seemed backto normal. That didn't last, they are now as they were before any work was done. The mechanic is baffled. I have now purchased a second hand master cylinder and booster off Ebay ($50) so that we can eliminate the master cylinder and booster as the problem...anyway, I'll let you know what happens next.

chief · 28-06-2006, 08:52 PM

GK another great tutorial write up there.

Thanks mate.