Lowering and Towing

janek · 29-06-2006, 09:32 AM

Here is a question for you peeps.

My car will need a new round of shockies soon. i figure if im outlaying 400+ for shocks, i may as well get some springs to go with them. With the springs seeing im doing that, i may as well get the full kit, and pretty much have the car how i want it for roughly double the price of shocks (tax return thinking...).

One reason for wanting to stiffen things up is the car travels a fair bit over bumps, and any sudden inclines, my bar comes dangerously close to the ground.

My only problem is i have a boat, and a trailer. My car is the workhorse so to say, and is it faesable to lower the car to SL, even SSL and still be able to have the car fully functional as a tow vehicle? The boat weighs about 1T incl trailer, up to 1.2T fully loaded.

Any thoughts anyone? What options do i have?

Autocade · 29-06-2006, 10:06 AM

Janek
My experience when towing boats and vans is that it can reduce vehicle ground clearance
With standard XR6 height I recently had trouble towing a large van & boat
I would suggest more research & testing before you decide
Good Luck

janek · 29-06-2006, 10:26 AM

exactly the point of the post...

so we have one against

sednwol · 29-06-2006, 11:03 AM

Given that towing will again lower the height of your AU, I would be concerned of serious underbody damage. I have to agree with Autocade. I've scraped the underside in a car with normal suspension on an incline.

JC · 29-06-2006, 11:06 AM

When I had my AU2 V8 Forte, I towed a 1.6T boat, so when I got it lowered, I asked for King SL Heavy Duty springs. They don't compress as much when you put a load on the towball (about 10mm, instead of around an inch for standard non-HD springs). King Spring come in standard, comfort and HD for any height - I would recommend for towing that you stick to no lower than SL, and in fact, Lows (stock XR height) would be the go.

As for the front - Lows if you are worried about scraping the front bar. SLs are OK if you are careful.

janek · 29-06-2006, 11:16 AM

im careful as is...

how stiff are the HD springs? Id like to keep some sort of comfort level...

JC · 29-06-2006, 11:29 AM

They are still pretty good. Never had any complaints about comfort. Your best bet is to ring a suspension place and ask the experts instead of getting opinions from amateurs.

janek · 29-06-2006, 11:34 AM

true...

buickman · 29-06-2006, 11:41 AM

I hired a car trailer drove a V8 cortina on the back. The tow car was a IRS AU with Kings S/L's The car dropped to low & I was not chancing underbody damage so borrowed a mates XD s/wagon withstock suspension to tow the trailer & car.

Autocade · 29-06-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janek

im careful as is...

how stiff are the HD springs? Id like to keep some sort of comfort level...

Janek
I reckon if you are concerned about towing and comfort as well you should stick with what you have because I am certain you will have issues with both of these by going lower

JC · 29-06-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autocade

Janek
I reckon if you are concerned about towing and comfort as well you should stick with what you have because I am certain you will have issues with both of these by going lower

Not if he gets the HD springs. I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE that Low, HD springs will give you the best of both worlds - a car that is lower than standard, is still comfortable to drive, and can handle a load when towing.

If you are still in doubt, just get King Spring Lows HD. They are XR height, and there are plenty of XRs (like mine) that are used for towing duties with no issues.

Sleeperau · 29-06-2006, 12:11 PM

What is often forgotten when discussing lowering heights is what wheel & tyre size combo do you have on the car. A 16 inch wheel with 45 series tyre is a lot lower than an 18 inch wheel with the same series etc. Something worth looking into.

janek · 29-06-2006, 12:14 PM

i have 17/235's...

I like the idea of Low HD's... the biggest reason for wanting lower is to have it a bit stiffer

Autocade · 29-06-2006, 12:42 PM

I do not have experience (see no shouting)with Low HD springs so perhaps
JC might take you for a test drive if you are not too far away from him

janek · 29-06-2006, 01:07 PM

i believe JC is in canberra?

atec77 · 29-06-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janek

Here is a question for you peeps.

My car will need a new round of shockies soon. i figure if im outlaying 400+ for shocks, i may as well get some springs to go with them. With the springs seeing im doing that, i may as well get the full kit, and pretty much have the car how i want it for roughly double the price of shocks (tax return thinking...).

One reason for wanting to stiffen things up is the car travels a fair bit over bumps, and any sudden inclines, my bar comes dangerously close to the ground.

My only problem is i have a boat, and a trailer. My car is the workhorse so to say, and is it faesable to lower the car to SL, even SSL and still be able to have the car fully functional as a tow vehicle? The boat weighs about 1T incl trailer, up to 1.2T fully loaded.

Any thoughts anyone? What options do i have?

I run an EL wagon dropped 60mm , I also run "pump ups" on the back as with out them the addition of an m/t trailer is scape city... worth the 250 a set as they really lift the back quite a bit when loaded..
if you cant find a set I would not tow when lowered..

AWD Chaser · 29-06-2006, 03:36 PM

My car is lowered. I towed a car back from eden to canberra, which meant I had to go up brown mountain. Aside from the back being so low, the exhaust melted the bumper, it was all good. Not as much boucing from the rear either...

that all said... the car was too far forward on the trailer.

This is how my car sits normally, and then how it looked with the car trailer (the pic with the car trailer is on flat ground...)

autickfordfairmont · 29-06-2006, 04:17 PM

As said, best bet is to talk to a suspension place, they will recomend what to fit, how much it will drop the car, & how low it should drop with the trailer on, take some figures with you (Weigh the drawbar weight of your trailer, (How much weight your actually carrying) if the trailer is set up right you shouldnt be carrying to much, (i forget what percentage it is but suspension place should know).

If you regularly tow or cart heavy loads, your probably best to stick with SL in the front & lows in the back, the *** end of the car will sit up a little when empty or not towing, but this makes the ideal tow vehicle as when you load the rear it will sit down even with the front of the car, but as said Talk to a suspension place about your different options, ie lower in front than rear, or harder in rear etc etc. or as said you can even adjustables so that you can stiffen up or pump up the rear a little when carting loads, but they do cost more aswell.

XR6-VCT-2000 · 29-06-2006, 05:19 PM

Air shocks/pump ups never go a stray if you do alot of towing / but also like ya car nice and low when not towing too. Pricey yes, and they can have their benifits and downfalls of leaks, depends how much towing you do , my 2 cents . cheers

JC · 29-06-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeperau

What is often forgotten when discussing lowering heights is what wheel & tyre size combo do you have on the car. A 16 inch wheel with 45 series tyre is a lot lower than an 18 inch wheel with the same series etc. Something worth looking into.

That has nothing to do with it. To be legal, the rolling diameter of any rim/tyre combo must be within 5% of manufacturer specs. So you can't run a 45 series tyre, legally, on a 16x7 rim.

janek - Yes, in ACT, but I couldn't take you for a ride in that car - it ws sold 2 AUs ago. But it did sit up higher than the front - not a lot, as it was still lowered, but about 15mm higher than front. With trailer on, car sat level.

AWD Chaser · 29-06-2006, 07:10 PM

It might be worth reminding members that when towing heavy loads (eg 1t +) that you should adjust your headlights to point a bit more down so as not shine in oncoming driver's eyes....

1TUFFUTE · 29-06-2006, 07:33 PM

over 1 ton u need trailer brakes too including the bout trailer. Mines a ute so it could be different but i tow 1 ton every day and mine is lowered from xr height down 2inchs on pedders hd SLs. hardley any sag...but it is bumpy :Up_to_som

AU-MUSTD · 29-06-2006, 07:37 PM

As a daily tower of a tandem trailer thats aprox 1.5 tonne l run munroe gas gt shocks on the rear with heavy duty pedders lows that sit the same as my old super low kings used to. It really doesnt matter what hieght you go unless like me you tow daily but is more inportant to have your boat/ trailer set up so as to not put much down wieght onto your towball. The pedders springs only went in a few weeks ago due to my car now running gas and they dropped around 35 mm in the first few weeks of towing to a point where my car now sits level without trailer on( super low front/ low rear) Hopefully it doesnt drop anymore as i'll be back to where i was with the super low kings on the back which looked like my rear was sagging.

**Mechan1k** · 29-06-2006, 09:52 PM

I have lowered my AUII XLS ute (originally sports suspension ... so i think factory XR height).

I have lowered mine 1.5" all round ... and I am running 235/45R17 wheel/tyre combination.

I tow horses around regularly ... and also havea car trailer as well ... and sometimes go and get a load of hay in the horse float or trailer ... depends how much i need.

Now when loaded up ... the back does sag a little ... but I have a stronger 2nd stage leaf in my springs in the back ... so retains comfort when empty .. but when load increases it will sag a fraction till it hits that 2nd-stage leaf and doesn't go any further ... and ride stiffens more as a result.

What I have found lacking is brakes though ... even on the AUII. This is trailer brakes and booster fitted as well.

Hence why i try and use the Territory for towing most of the time ... but I do use the ute regularly for towing (also loading the ute up at the same time)

janek · 29-06-2006, 10:07 PM

for the record, i have the irs too...

i will head into a suspension place soon.

in summer i tow at least every other weekend, winter every month. Approx towing km/yr is about 20,000 out of about 40-70... (30%ish)

its important for the car to look good without a load too... so many prerequisites

Sleeperau · 30-06-2006, 08:51 AM

[QUOTE=JC]That has nothing to do with it. To be legal, the rolling diameter of any rim/tyre combo must be within 5% of manufacturer specs. So you can't run a 45 series tyre, legally, on a 16x7 rim.

Illegal maybe but important yes. It will determine how low your car will sit. It is difficult to advise anyone about an exact height without knowing the wheel tyre specs, otherwise it is all guess work. I don't believe there are many modded cars with the rolling diameter within the 5% of manufacturers specs.

janek · 30-06-2006, 10:22 AM

mine is

its actually 2.5% smaller

But anyhoos...

the option i will most likely take is HD SL springs front and rear. with shocks to match. With the adjustable shockies, how much do they cost extra, may be worth a look for some piece of mind.. or is it simply not worth the trouble?

Everything i do to my car is long term cost and drivability related.

The weight of trailer on towbar is a smidge over 50kg (i sorta designed the trailer to almost balance on the axle with the boat unloaded). with the floor and fuel tanks, battery etc, it leans quite happily forward.

JC · 30-06-2006, 02:26 PM

[QUOTE=Sleeperau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

That has nothing to do with it. To be legal, the rolling diameter of any rim/tyre combo must be within 5% of manufacturer specs. So you can't run a 45 series tyre, legally, on a 16x7 rim.

Illegal maybe but important yes. It will determine how low your car will sit. It is difficult to advise anyone about an exact height without knowing the wheel tyre specs, otherwise it is all guess work. I don't believe there are many modded cars with the rolling diameter within the 5% of manufacturers specs.

Rubbish. Where do you make this stuff up? I have 18s on both mine (both came with 16s). They have 245/40/18, and 265/35/18, which are both within 1% rolling diameter of the standard 225/50/16. So believe what you want, but as long as the wheel tyre package remains within the legal 5% limit to be roadworthy and insurable, then what rim & tyre you are running makes no difference to the overall ride height. Ride confort, yes (a smaller profile tyre means the suspension does more work, as the tyre does not flex as much as a larger profile like 70 sereis). But not height.

JC · 30-06-2006, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janek

mine is

its actually 2.5% smaller

But anyhoos...

the option i will most likely take is HD SL springs front and rear. with shocks to match. With the adjustable shockies, how much do they cost extra, may be worth a look for some piece of mind.. or is it simply not worth the trouble?

Everything i do to my car is long term cost and drivability related.

The weight of trailer on towbar is a smidge over 50kg (i sorta designed the trailer to almost balance on the axle with the boat unloaded). with the floor and fuel tanks, battery etc, it leans quite happily forward.

You would be looking at Konis, Bilsteins etc, and they are about double what a monroe GT would cost, but they are fully rebuilable (ie you get them serviced, not replaced) and you can adjust them for hard or soft settings, and anything in between - depending on the exact model you end up with, of course. From memory, a full set of Konis for an IRS equipped falcon is around $600 plus fitting.

Sleeperau · 30-06-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Rubbish. Where do you make this stuff up? I have 18s on both mine (both came with 16s). They have 245/40/18, and 265/35/18, which are both within 1% rolling diameter of the standard 225/50/16. So believe what you want, but as long as the wheel tyre package remains within the legal 5% limit to be roadworthy and insurable, then what rim & tyre you are running makes no difference to the overall ride height. Ride confort, yes (a smaller profile tyre means the suspension does more work, as the tyre does not flex as much as a larger profile like 70 sereis). But not height.

225/45/16 tyres will make the car sit lower than 225/60/16 tyres!