Germany - how to build a Federal Highway

Keepleft · 25-09-2006, 09:35 PM

Bernd Felsche at 'aus.cars' newgroup has issued these links for perusal. This is a highway so is not to full autobahn standard. Still, beats some of our best:-)

Here's a page of pictures showing a new highway a little before it opened to the public in Germany. It's a federal highway being used as an Autobahn placebo so it's designed to carry a lot of traffic.

http://www.b6n-online.de/0_11_BA72_ende.htm

Width-wise, it's the same cross-section as a narrow Autobahn but it doesn't have full-length barriers at the edge.

Construction being finished includes the median barrier.

Overpasses, etc are also shown as well as sweeping bends, etc.

A novel technique used in surfacing is "compact asphalt" where a hot binding layer is put down immediately before the bitumen. This is supposed to dramatically reduce surface cracking due to thermal expansion/contraction and slows the development of wheel ruts. It also halves the amount of bitumen that's needed for the top surface.

This is a set of piccies from an opening of a new section of that
highway:
http://www.b6n-online.de/3_1_2fest06_nach.htm

And another section:
http://www.b6n-online.de/freigabe_81.htm

Note the crappy Police cars!

MO · 25-09-2006, 10:15 PM

I may be wrong but isn't called hotmix here!

Keepleft · 25-09-2006, 10:28 PM

Domestically, hotmix is used as a generic name but will have technical differences, both in substance and mix.

I will say however, and mildly OT, beware of 'stone mastic asphalt' in relation to adhesion.

Often used on our country roads, yet owing safety issues identified OS is speed limited to 50km/h in places like Ireland. This form of construction is suspect and the Europeans are removing it owing an increase in crashes on the type of surface.

Our state GovCo's are aware of the problem, some inventories are been undertaken as to where it has been used . . .

This is not NZ source chip-seal as used here.

Homer1 · 25-09-2006, 10:32 PM

Crappy police cars? Not a Merc fan are you?

Panda · 25-09-2006, 11:09 PM

4 lane dual carriage way should be the absolute minimum for the vast majority of the Bruce Highway.

I'm not a fan of the big barriers between the different directions of the road (a shallow ditch with small trees / shrubs would be ideal), but it is better than a white line. While I'm working on my wish-list, I'll add to it a realistic speed limit

Maybe all those speeding fines will eventually contribute to superior roads to stop people dying.

Panda

uranium_death · 25-09-2006, 11:44 PM

The German autobahns (freeways) have the lowest fatality rate of any roads in Germany, although most rural portions have only an 130-km/h (81-mph) advisory speed limit. No surprise that in the U.S. also, freeways are the fastest, safest, and most fuel-efficient of all highways!

Pity Australia can't have one. We'd have "safe" drivers doing 60km/h on it, shouting out of their Toyota Crown, "Slow down you whippersnaps", but I wouldn't hear them as I'd already be 500m ahead. Pity really.

T_Terror · 25-09-2006, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda

4 lane dual carriage way should be the absolute minimum for the vast majority of the Bruce Highway.

I'm not a fan of the big barriers between the different directions of the road (a shallow ditch with small trees / shrubs would be ideal), but it is better than a white line. While I'm working on my wish-list, I'll add to it a realistic speed limit

Maybe all those speeding fines will eventually contribute to superior roads to stop people dying.

Panda

Lol, , stop it your killing me

:

Keepleft · 26-09-2006, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Homer1 so wrote: Crappy police cars? Not a Merc fan are you?

Humour only. I AM a fan of continental *standard equipment vehicle specifications* for what we call MA, MB and MC categories here in AUS, done before we ever raise (or derestrict) limits in this place.

Quote:

Panda wrote: - 4 lane dual carriage way should be the absolute minimum for the vast majority of the Bruce Highway.

Over the long term it shall be done, welcome to life, all you can do is nag your MP. Australians have been nagging MP's for improved roads particularly hard, since after WW2, may it continue, the nagging I mean.

Quote:

I'm not a fan of the big barriers between the different directions of the road (a shallow ditch with small trees / shrubs would be ideal), but it is better than a white line.

MUCH danger is a median ditch of the QLD type ('OLDE' US engineering btw), it is demonstrably safer to barrier the edge of the item, either with W-beam guardrail or better wire-rope such as BRIFEN brand ( www.brifen.co.uk www.brifen.com.au ) or the often used Swedish design 'Flexfence' which is used frequently.

We simply should NOT be able to achieve a crossover crash on a median divided road. Where one eventuates as a result of the road having no barrier in the median, such is actionable negligence in my view. (With many variables naturally enough).

Quote:

While I'm working on my wish-list, I'll add to it a realistic speed limit

Will not happen, or should not till certain road upgrades are done (years off) AND our vehicle fleet standard equipment requirement is harmonised with that applying in the Continental EU. To do otherwise is to create much risk and will impact any cost benefit outcome of such a proposal.

A jurisdiction COULD adopt speed derestriction (//) on a per length of road basis on remote asphalt two-lane highways with good side view without impacting overall network safety. The key national roads do need attention though before such a move.

SpoolMan · 26-09-2006, 01:10 AM

Its a nice road, perhaps they could lay some of that at Calder Park for there return road.

Smoked · 26-09-2006, 01:15 AM

Very interesting. Good to see the types of materials they use can produce very significant engineering results interms of life cycle for the surfaces.

MO · 26-09-2006, 07:34 AM

If memory is good I think Qld just removed some stone mastic from around Federal...to many prangs especially in the wet.

new2ford · 26-09-2006, 11:38 AM

Nice but there are a lot of competing priorities - health, education. Spare a thought for the railways who are mostly operating on 19th century infrastructure. On the other hand if they got rid of one level of government in this most overgoverned country in the world there'd be money left over from all those redundant public servants and pollies to pay for these roads. Personally I'm not so troubled by the roads themselves, or even the cars, as the declining driver standards I've noticed over 35 years on the roads. As Uranium Death says, even with roads like this there are too many drivers who wouldn't know how to use them. Driver education first.....

Keepleft · 26-09-2006, 06:59 PM

Sure, but in those days many jurisdictions had no absolute speed limit out of towns, so folk generally tended to behave better to one another.

Improved roads and vehicles have seen the road-toll drop worldwide over the period since.

AnthonyQLD · 26-09-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

MUCH danger is a median ditch of the QLD type ('OLDE' US engineering btw), it is demonstrably safer to barrier the edge of the item, either with W-beam guardrail or better wire-rope such as BRIFEN brand ( www.brifen.co.uk www.brifen.com.au ) or the often used Swedish design 'Flexfence' which is used frequently.

That wire-rope is not much good for motor bikes coming into contact with it.

Smoked · 26-09-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyQLD

That wire-rope is not much good for motor bikes coming into contact with it.

Awesome for cars, but the carnage it causes to bikes (did a couple of case studies) is terrible.

26-09-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyQLD

That wire-rope is not much good for motor bikes coming into contact with it.

Aka the wire cheese slicer

dirt 01 · 26-09-2006, 10:54 PM

i like how they open the road with drag racing parties! Wouldnt happen here in Braxville.

brenx · 26-09-2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Its a nice road, perhaps they could lay some of that at Calder Park for there return road.

Classic. Maybe someone should forward a few pics to Calder management and state a return road should look like this and then have an alternate pic of a pot holed country road saying "not like this".

Keepleft · 27-09-2006, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyQLD

That wire-rope is not much good for motor bikes coming into contact with it.

Actually no barrier is totally M/C friendly. Seven US states have banned steel guardrail W-Beam, so they instead now use wire-rope and Jersey.

Still to find a cheese-cutted motorcyclist, you know - a head here, a sliced hand, arm, leg there, a boot over in the water catchment,- that sort of thing, now in my ghoulish efforts to do so find, I chased in GB, now - the UK Highways Agency parapet people tell me that in over 32 years of use they are yet to see an incidence of this.

I have seen a motorcyclist killed-plonked next to such a barrier, but suspect first being under the wheel of the B-Double will have done him in first??

M/C's represent 2.3 of total registrations in my state, but lets be generous and lie and say they represent 8%, now that would just about give m/c's arout 18% of all road travel at a given time. Still a minority road user, and really - we simply must engineer for the majority road vehicle user, - cars et al; who often you know take great delight when unexpectedly crossing bushy medians to only then loom out in front of motorcyclists and cars riding/driving in the other direction whilst wearing big - wide grins, they have a choice; 'avoid' the car with grinning driver or hit it. When they hit, often other immediate and following traffic then hits that scene, further adding to the joyous event.

NB - Paramedic brother is a BMW 1000 daily rider - I have inviting him to drive into the wire-rope section I had advocated installed following a crossover back in 1997 at Ourimbah on the NSW F3 after threatening action following a fatal. He refuses my invitaton to slide into it, despite my assurances that all will be well, stuffed if I know why??

Make no mistake 'medians' will get the stuff, or jersey or W-beam, the sides of the roads I am not so concerned; 'lengths' of sides at critical points - yes sure, but not full-length, as I advocate for mongrel medians.

Motocyclists who cannot sleep at night owing nighmares of wire-rope barrier and bad dairy products best not drive in Europe, particularly Sweden, bad cheese, bad, bad, bad cheese.