Getting someone to help themelves..

Van D · 29-12-2006, 02:58 AM

Well, following on from the friends in a bad way thread, I've noticed a few people around here that have had friends (or themselves) down the wrong path, but got back on track.

So yeah, i've got a friend who's being kicked out of home, and now living with some, err, not so bright people (who dont treat her right either). The thing is, she doesn't want to be there, but she doesn't really want to help herself either as all her life she's been told she's worthless, so she thinks she deserves what she has got.

Now, my problem is, i've been helping her a lot with things, but it's getting to the point where I feel I can't get her any further myself, and that if I get up and leave now, there might be a nasty end (suicidal yes).

So, has anyone else been in a similar situation? I can take her out and we'll have fun, and she knows she can/wants to make things better, but she also doesn't at the same time.. She's seen councelor's in the past but thinks they just make her feel like crap, and was a part of a youth group a couple years ago but didn't really like it either..

I feel like i've hit a dead end.. Any advice from people been through similar? Or perhaps if anyone knows any numbers to try, or even places to get numbers? (I was gonna head down to the cop shop to see what I could find)..

Anyway, any help would be good, cos yah, i'm starting to lose it a little, lol.

Cheers.

BZINGA · 29-12-2006, 04:16 AM

Sounds like a tough one for you. IMO the best thing you can do is stand by her even though your feeling its a dead end. Try to convince her to see a Dr, maybe you could go in with her for support. She may be able to get some medication to help with what sounds like depression if you think she may be suicidal. Dr's these days have alot of information about depression and suicide, so they will be able to help in treating what they think is the best way to go. The hardest part is getting her to want to help herself.
Good luck and i hope it works out.

MNM96 · 29-12-2006, 07:21 AM

Depression is not a phase, but an illness. It takes several years to overcome, with patient loved ones, freinds, A doctors help and some good medication. With the help of all the above, You will see an almost immediate improvement, but its an aesy slip or a long road. Encourage her to seek out the assistance of a Doctor. Admitting depression is the biggest step.
Cheers,
Mike

MotherNatureVer2 · 29-12-2006, 10:38 AM

Been there done that ...... as most would know ;)

I wouldnt say I have beaten depression but I am on a definate up from where I was 2years ago.

MNM's advise is perfect ..... although I resisted the medications and am now going well I wonder how much quicker I would have come to this point if I was .........

I can understand when your friend says that councillors dont seem to help much ..... I found them to be loverly people but didnt seem to help me at all ........

The one thing that has got me through most of this if the love of my kids & an amazing mate who was always there and now my wonderful OH............... It seems you may be that mate for your friend.

Never give up on her ........ let her know when shes talking rot ......... amazingly we actually know what were saying may not be factual but it does seem real, very real when in a manic state( the fears etc) sometimes all we need is someone close to us to get our head out of that mind state & back to reality.

Give yourself a break for a day or so but let her know your there ........ I know she needs you and so do you ;)

Simmo · 29-12-2006, 10:54 AM

try to avoid anti-depressants as much as you can. they are worse for the user in the long run and the 'benefits' of being on them is that instead of being depressed you get lobotomised. you dont care about anything. youre not unhappy, but youre not happy. its crap.

as the above poster said, just be there for her. you cant take on any of her problems or else you'll cease to be a help, but just having you there to talk sense and clear the air will help heaps. be patient and just keep her on the right track as depression is a personal problem that you usually get from being on your own and usually make up your mind to fix it on your own.

Disco Stu · 29-12-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simmo

try to avoid anti-depressants as much as you can. .

Dangerous advise you're giving there mate

pecker73 · 29-12-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simmo

try to avoid anti-depressants as much as you can. they are worse for the user in the long run and the 'benefits' of being on them is that instead of being depressed you get lobotomised. you dont care about anything. youre not unhappy, but youre not happy. its crap.

H O L Y S H I T ... I am glad your not treating me...

You have either never suffered from depression or where on the wrong drugs when you did...

Best advise, get your friend to seek professional help... NOT the kind that is offered from the internet...

If the thought of seeing a psychologist or the like freaks her out, then try a GP who specialises in depression. (The AMA can provide you with a list in your area).
Much to many peoples suprise, the don't always start treatment with a range of drugs.

Mark^^ · 29-12-2006, 03:26 PM

I have been an adolescent counsellor and family therapist for many years, but I have moved away for face to face work now. For someone with a long history with depression the a combined Anti depressant medication and face to face counselling can be a good way to help with depression if the counsellor and the prescriber of the medication work together will help her. Also the young woman needs to find trust with both the counsellor and doctor for this type of assistance to work.

Medication without some face to face talking assistance from either the prescriber or a counsellor is not always the best strategy. A qualified prescriber who knows what they are doing need to be part of the process. As a counsellor working with depressed adolescent I would always go with them to consult an adolescent psychiatrist I know to work together to assist the young person. Medication is not always necessary but have a medical person involved can be a good benefit.

Depression has a range of aetiologies and does not mean that it requires someone to be on medication for the rest of their lives, also modern medications do not “lobotomised” someone on them. One of the reasons talking therapy with medication can help is that

I hope your friend gets some assistance. However having been a social worker assisting people for over 20 years, I have learned the old adage ‘you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink’ is very true. Professional help will only work when its is accepted. You could offer to go with your friend to see someone professional and with her consent be part of the treatment as you can the be her advocate ensuring she is getting good help, and when the help is not working speak up for her.

As to help numbers I would need to know your location, and really I only know numbers to help in Sydney and Canberra.

Van D · 29-12-2006, 09:46 PM

Thanks for all the help people, I didn't think i'd get this many replies straight off.

I've been through depression as well (it still comes back and has gotten pretty bad this year) so I know what people mean when you don't think about things properly, or you make yourself believe something is true, even if you know it's not..

Anywho, Mark - I know what you mean with the horse thing.. Kinda getting addicts to stop when they don't want to as well..

As for anti depressents, i've mentioned it to her a few times.. I think the main thing that scares her is our friend went on them once and it really messed him up, why though, i'm not sure.. =/

I'm trying to get her to see a GP (thanks pecker for the AMA heads up), it's just hard to get her to trust them, especially if it's a guy (i'll be blunt, she's very good looking and she's had waaay to many guys take advantage of her, including things without consent, so she freaks out a lot, which is understandable).

MotherNature - I'll never give up on her, we've been through soooo much crap together that'd it'd just be stupid to give up, it just kinda feels like I can't do much more, ya know?

Anyway, thanks for the help guys.. Keep it coming if you can.

Amber · 30-12-2006, 09:28 AM

She needs professional help ASAP.

Also, have a look around the Beyond Blue website. There is a K10 test she can do (online) to see if she is at risk. Also, remember there are a variety of different depressions. Myself, I've had PND (Postnatal Depression) and have OCD tendancies. My Mother has Bi-Polar, My Husband has your more traditional depression, and my Brother ADHD. We're all on some form of Anti-Depressants, and not the first ones we tried. It's trial and error.

Quote:

try to avoid anti-depressants as much as you can. they are worse for the user in the long run and the 'benefits' of being on them is that instead of being depressed you get lobotomised. you dont care about anything. youre not unhappy, but youre not happy. its crap.

110% NOT TRUE.

She needs to find something that works for her. And what works for her, might not work for someone else. When she finds something that works for her, you then have to find the right dosage. Just popping some pill will not "fix" her, but it will certainly help her feel more "normal". For me, it ws AD's combined with regular sessions with my Pchycologist. This is what works for me.

I wish both of you all the very best. She needs to become educated on mental illness and realise it's not a life sentance. She can still live a fullfilling life, with the right assistance. Also, reassure her what she is feeling is valid, and not "silly". I had quite severe PND after the birth of my last baby 10 months ago, and people who weren't educated were telling me to "snap out of it" and thought the things I was saying/doing was just for attention.

Keep us updated.

Amber.

30-12-2006, 10:43 AM

So shes living out of home, whats going on in her life? Working, study etc?

Bumming around doing nothing can be a bit dangerous. Try and find what she has/had a passion for and get her into doing something similar.

Her problems have to be both tackled head on and from the side. If she can identify what her problems are, and a lot of problems they seem to have stem from 1 thing 99% of the time.. That makes dealing with it becomes a lot easier then.

And having a path to keep her busy and content could help as well.

Scott · 30-12-2006, 11:04 AM

Sounds like depression (as mentioned several times) but whether it is or it isn't, get help and be help. I have quite a bit of history with a girl who was in a similar boat. Fortunately I was semi-dating her quickly after we met and I suggested we move to Canberra where I had a strong network of friends and family. Getting her into a much better circle of friends and giving her the time and support to get her **** together turned her life around. She has a big network of friends now, solid and well paying job and give that her family has a strong history of depression and other mental illness, I can say that after about 4 years she has broken the cycle.

We've been together for 8 years and now married for 1 year.

Van D · 30-12-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amber

She needs professional help ASAP.

Also, have a look around the Beyond Blue website. There is a K10 test she can do (online) to see if she is at risk.

Keep us updated.

Amber.

Thanks very much for the info. I'd been on beyond blue before but didn't realise they had tests/surveys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLS

So shes living out of home, whats going on in her life? Working, study etc?

Bumming around doing nothing can be a bit dangerous. Try and find what she has/had a passion for and get her into doing something similar.

Her problems have to be both tackled head on and from the side. If she can identify what her problems are, and a lot of problems they seem to have stem from 1 thing 99% of the time.. That makes dealing with it becomes a lot easier then.

And having a path to keep her busy and content could help as well.

She's got part time work at a salon (though it's not enough) and other than that, she's living in a house full of people who get money from the government.. She's talked about going to see if she can get anything herself, but i'm trying to encourage her otherwise.. I'm not sure if it's the best idea, but in my head, getting full time work so she can support herself is not only going to keep her busy, but be more positive then getting centrelink/government grants which could influence her into becoming lazy/stuck in the same place, ya know?

She loves being around horses, and comes up to see our fresians every now and then which makes her happy.. I've told her about a place nearby called Wandin Park which helps disabled and I think underpriviliged kids learn to ride horses (I think it's mianly volunteer work), and she said she'd love to do that.. It's just getting her to MAKE the call and organise something thats hard (i told her a couple weeks ago and nothing has happened).

The problems have stemmed from a few things.. But it's mainly family/family friends treating her like she's nothing for as long as she can remember (including physical/sexual/verbal abuse) and also guys taking advantage of her all her life.. basically, as many other girls did, she went through a bit of a, erm, 'easy' stage when she was younger, but it's mainly because that was her only way of getting attention and she thought she DESERVED it.. The thing is, she's only just recently got out of hanging around with those guys since she started getting closer to me, although she stills sees some of them (almost as if it's fine whats happened) and she also lives with a couple guys that I wouldn't trust at all.. So yeah, kinda hard to deal with at times as i'm not sure how to help her out with things like that, as many of the people *are* her longest friends and it's not like I can just move away with her (though that'd be good, lol).

GTP006 - Sounds similar to whats happened with us.. We've kinda been together, but not.. Mainly because I just feel I can't commit with all this stuff happening, and I only got out of a 2 year relationship a couple months ago (all the time this stuff has been happening), in which i'm still good friends with my ex, so it's kind of hard for this girl as well.. Ya, bit of a crap situation, lol :togo:

Cheers guys.

PS. I'm also going to the doc myself about depression as i'm sick of feeling down.. Would it be smart to try and do a 'i'll do it if you do' kind of thing with this girl? Not that blunt, but I couldn't think of other ways to put it into words, lol.

gtfpv · 30-12-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popinfresh

Thanks very much for the info. I'd been on beyond blue before but didn't realise they had tests/surveys.

She's got part time work at a salon (though it's not enough) and other than that, she's living in a house full of people who get money from the government.. She's talked about going to see if she can get anything herself, but i'm trying to encourage her otherwise.. I'm not sure if it's the best idea, but in my head, getting full time work so she can support herself is not only going to keep her busy, but be more positive then getting centrelink/government grants which could influence her into becoming lazy/stuck in the same place, ya know?

She loves being around horses, and comes up to see our fresians every now and then which makes her happy.. I've told her about a place nearby called Wandin Park which helps disabled and I think underpriviliged kids learn to ride horses (I think it's mianly volunteer work), and she said she'd love to do that.. It's just getting her to MAKE the call and organise something thats hard (i told her a couple weeks ago and nothing has happened).

The problems have stemmed from a few things.. But it's mainly family/family friends treating her like she's nothing for as long as she can remember (including physical/sexual/verbal abuse) and also guys taking advantage of her all her life.. basically, as many other girls did, she went through a bit of a, erm, 'easy' stage when she was younger, but it's mainly because that was her only way of getting attention and she thought she DESERVED it.. The thing is, she's only just recently got out of hanging around with those guys since she started getting closer to me, although she stills sees some of them (almost as if it's fine whats happened) and she also lives with a couple guys that I wouldn't trust at all.. So yeah, kinda hard to deal with at times as i'm not sure how to help her out with things like that, as many of the people *are* her longest friends and it's not like I can just move away with her (though that'd be good, lol).

GTP006 - Sounds similar to whats happened with us.. We've kinda been together, but not.. Mainly because I just feel I can't commit with all this stuff happening, and I only got out of a 2 year relationship a couple months ago (all the time this stuff has been happening), in which i'm still good friends with my ex, so it's kind of hard for this girl as well.. Ya, bit of a crap situation, lol :togo:

Cheers guys.

PS. I'm also going to the doc myself about depression as i'm sick of feeling down.. Would it be smart to try and do a 'i'll do it if you do' kind of thing with this girl? Not that blunt, but I couldn't think of other ways to put it into words, lol.

DONT BE AFRAID TO SEEK HELP . i am about to come off anti depressants after 5 months . they help . they dont have to be permanent . they stop you from feeling really really down like theres no hope . they dont make you feel happy . in fact in some cases they do make you have less happy episodes but also less down episodes , so i guess they make you feeel stable and ; during that time you can sort yourself out and deal with who you are and your plans . i'm on low dose . try low dose for atleast 6 weeks and stay on low dose if you can . after a while you will see things with a clearer mind .
like the counseler says the hardest part is accepting that you need temporary help. if you are really flat and down it is so hard to accept , ( part of getting over it is accepting it and it is no big deal . ( it does not mean you are insane!!!! counselling is a must also . and after 6 weeks to 18 months . yes i'm told 18 months is a normal treatment plan . you can get back to being yourself , but better and more realising than you were before. lots of people oiut there refuse to believe they are depressed, and subsequentlyu go down the long path to the bottom...... you can lead a horse to water but you cant make em drink it .