Pit Bulls

tickford302 · 06-05-2005, 06:17 PM

Just seeing general perception of the pit bull terrier, seems goverment has decided in a knee jerk reaction to ban the breed,as described by Bob Carr as " Killing machines on leashes"problem being no attackes have ever been by the breed on a leash, so dog problem or owner problem, if you click on the link you will see it is us humans that have made this dog and to fix it we take the easy way out and destroy it instead of FIX it,some scenes are a bit on the graphic side. www.pitbullproblem.tk . Being a Rottwieller owner myself with three children i know it will be me next looking at protecting my breed.The main concern i feel is that last year Bull Terrier attacks(as it is extremely difficult to actually identify the pit bull breed) accounted for 2% of attacks with the Maltese Terrier coming in right near the top for attacking people and children, and yes the people are fixed up in hospital just not reported to the media( not sensational enough ).Even if you dont own a dog i know you should still have an opinion on this and for those who do have a dog it wont take long till they get round to your breed.

bindi · 06-05-2005, 06:31 PM

I am a bit worried about this reaction... it's so simplistic. I read somewhere that it's breeds like German Shepherds that are most likely to turn on kids (don't ask me where, it was on the net).

I have a bully x staffy and I'm concerned that ppl will think she's a pit bull and dob her in - even though she's never attacked anyone (we have little old ladies who hang out at their windows all day looking for any kind of trouble in the neighbourhood).

I know on the news they showed two pit bulls going for each other and carrying on but in reality this could be ANY dog. For example I was walking my dog today, on a harness/leash system, and when we went past the particular house this little snappy thing (chihuaha cross) almost broke the fence down to attack my Fudgie! Sure, Fudge would have eaten this dog in less than a mouthful, but still she didn't initiate anything and only got grumpy when she went to the fence to say hi and the snappy little football-thing bit her nose!

I am against the putting-down of any animal that has shown no previous signs of aggression and biting. I know that some dogs have attacked without any warning, but normally there is a history of general grumpiness. Some owners have said that they know their dog is not good with kids but had the rellies over with the little kids in tow for a bbq anyway.

Psycho Chicken · 06-05-2005, 06:42 PM

It's all bullshit. We've got a German Shepherd, she would lick you to death before she bit you. When I play with her we'll both get rough with each other, she'll growl and bark but she's NEVER bit me.

But hey, it's easy to just ban things baised on flawed evidence than find real solutions. It's all about getting votes and Pit Bull/Shepherd/Dingo/South American Testicle Eating dog owners don't count for shit in the sceme of things.

jabba · 06-05-2005, 06:49 PM

Here's an idea, why don't we put the owners down who breed the viciousness into the dog. Why does the poor dog alway get the blame.

p.s. That video brought a tear to my eye.

BOSS 540 · 06-05-2005, 06:54 PM

The only dogs Ive been bitten by are the small, yappy stupid type. Who knows what actual mix of breeds these "killers" are, are they pure?, or is the name pit bull just too damm scary. Penalise stupid, neglectfull owners not a whole breed. This is just another typical kneejerk, shortsighted decision aimed to keep the wowsers happy.

MotherNatureVer2 · 06-05-2005, 06:58 PM

This is a topic that I love discussing ...........

I have, as all know Australian Cattle Dogs ...... when I heard on a news flash that certain dogs were going to be banned I was sure it was our turn ........ but no ..... not yet .......

Having owned quiet a few breeds of dogs .... but namely German Shephards & Red Cattle dogs, I can say without doubt that the dogs who attack have been tourmented in some way, shape or form and not neccisarily at the time they attack.

A dog will only attack if it feels imtimidated ............ it doesnt matter if its a lap dog like a little rat like Chiuaua(sp?) or a huge Rottwieller......... I can speak from experience with my old red boy Cooper .... who I have recetly lost ......... He wasnt fond of kids ..... I know why ........ a few little mongrel kids used to throw rocks at him ........ From then on he didnt take to anyone from my youngests height down ......

I knew this & always made sure that he was securely put away when I had mates over.

A lot of the dog attacks are on children ............. I know why my dog didnt like them ....... I wonder why other dogs are the same ........

Its OK to say 'awwwwwww but little Johnnie didnt do a thing to the dog when it attacked ' ....... but what did he do to him last time he walked past the gate ??????

Twisted · 06-05-2005, 07:00 PM

Ive seen that pit bull slideshow before and its a real eye opener. My boy is an 18 month old half American Pitbull half American Staffy and he is the best dog i have ever seen. He is great with kids, he and my 2 year old cousin share icecreams and she pulls on his tale and ears and his most aggressive reaction is to lick her face until she falls over from laughing. He knows who he can play rough with and when he is rough he is rough but all you have to do is say "gentle" and he sits down at your feet lookin for a cuddle. The owner makes the dogs personality. A loving family/owner will reflect on the dog, a ***** will unfortunately do the same. Some people view dogs as an ornament for the backyard and dont actually take the time to make them a part of the family. Unfotrunately these same people are often the ones who pick the "tough" breeds of dogs because they think it makes them look like a badass.

**Falcon Coupe** · 06-05-2005, 07:03 PM

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

Damo · 06-05-2005, 07:13 PM

Yeah I agree with the general consencus here, it's the owners of these dogs who are the mongrels (the ones who you here about ataacking people. I have a German sheppard 1/4 Rotty, he's the best mate I could ever have. Although I don't trust him around kids, as he grew up with 3 teenagers, also the kids like to tease him when they walk through the reserve next to out property, also have a Border Collie who I love to bits.

The Government have no idea.

MotherNatureVer2 · 06-05-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

Never a truer word spoken

Racecraft · 06-05-2005, 07:27 PM

I have a Staffy built like a brick and a toy poodle... I know which one bites and it isn't the Staf. The public perseption of an aggresive dog is plain wrong in my books

Laminge · 06-05-2005, 07:42 PM

I have a mate with several pit bulls

Wont let them near children, well fenced area for them, and in general is a great animal lover.

I think it the onwers that need to be removed from the gene pool, not the dogs, in most cases

tickford302 · 06-05-2005, 08:31 PM

Just thought i would add this too, as so many people are quick to say a pit bull mauled me would they really know what a pit bull looked like.
You may want to try this test and put up how many times it took till you picked the right dog,i'll be first to admit i didnt get first or second go.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Fin...itbull_v3.html

Thornie · 06-05-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

thats all there is to it
ppl are worried around my dog with there kids because she is a staffy-x and that she may bite them but she is the most placid dog you will ever meet if kids annoy her she does'nt bite, she just gets up and goes somewhere where the kids won't find her

xceler8shun · 06-05-2005, 08:40 PM

This media hype about APBT's is a joke.

First off there is no breed called a pitbull, it is the "American Pit Bull Terrier" or APBT for short.

APBT's are described as killing machines, when in fact they have not caused a single death in Australia. They are not bred to kill.

Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) as propsoed by the Carr Government has been proven that it does not work, as was the case in the United Kingdom. They banned APBT's and other "so called dangerous breeds" and the rate of dog attacks went unchanged.

If BSL is approved, it wont stop with APBT's. They will move their targets to American Staffordshire Terriers, German Shephard Dogs, Rottweilers and so on down the line until all were are left with are lap dogs.

A few statistics for you all. The higher the percentage, the more dogs that passed the temperament test.

Breed....................................- Tested - Passed - Failed - Percentage

American Pit Bull Terrier............- 469 ......... 391 ...... 78 ..... 83.4%
American Staffordshire Terrier....- 480 ......... 400 ...... 80 ..... 83.3%
German Shepherd Dog..............- 2717 ....... 2250 ..... 467 .... 82.8%
Rottweiler..............................- 4498 ....... 3702 ..... 796 .... 82.3%
Australian Cattle Dog...............- 148 ......... 113 ....... 35 ..... 76.4%
Chihuahua.............................- 34 ........... 24 ....... 10 ...... 70.6%
Shetland Sheepdog.................- 459 .......... 306 ...... 153 .... 66.7%

Did anyone see the crap the put on A Current Affair about the recent attacks? The only footage of the dogs was of dog fighting, which people who carry on with this activity should be shot. They showed about 30 seconds worth of footage with Colin Muir from the American Pit Bull Terrier Club of Australia Inc. defending the APBT, when in fact they interviewed him for over 40 minutes.

My friend and his fiance who are APBT breeders and compete in APBT shows, have not been off the phone since this crap happened. Everyone that they have sold an APBT have said that they will not be desexing their dogs or cease breeding with them.

Many of us APBT and other breeds of dogs that may be classified as "pitbull style" dogs owners have written emails to Bob Carr. We have tried to keep the emails polite and have asked people not to go "off ther nut" in the email, stating that we just hope that the Government bases any decisions about the American Pit Bull Terrier breed on fact and not what has been shown in the media to destroy our loving and gentle breed.

Bob Carrs email address
bob.carr@www.nsw.gov.au

You think a APBT is dangerous? wait until you meet the owner who you want to forcibly take it away from.

MO · 06-05-2005, 09:18 PM

Allright guys my two cents worth and I was involved in dog obedience training for about 8yrs.
1. MN is spot on there is no such thing as a bad dog...its bad owners.
2. Any dog if it is intimidated,threatened or feels it has no means of escape,I.E.surrounded by screaming rugrats etc, will react in a way to preserve its self.
3. Any dog if teased etc and this is the same for any animal be it a bird or a bear will either at the time react or later on if the behaviour happens again...TO PROTECT ITSELF or their family ie the owner and their family.

I believe that before anyone becomes a pet owner they should undergo a training/education/assessment programme to see if they are a fit person to have that particular pet. Yes I'm talking about a permit/licensing system,especially after what I saw about a Mother and Daughter who were mentally challenged had done to their cats. They were banned by the courts to not have any pets at all but what happens the RSPCA is in their place a few weeks later removing mistreated animals.

I should add that as we as humans can have mental disorders so can animals.

MITCHAY · 06-05-2005, 09:19 PM

Dogs are vicious when they are raised that way and in a shit environment. The owners are the ones to blame. Any dog shoud be kept in a secure backyard and put on a leash anywhere in public. I had a silky terrier and it would bite me if i stirred it up where as the dog next door a german shepard never did anything to me. Any dog can bite just as much as the next one. Bring it up in the right conditions and there should be no probs. If you treat it like shit its bound to be a bastard.

svo347 · 06-05-2005, 09:44 PM

The more important question to be asked here is which breed is next???
Im a happy Rottie owner, sianne is a purebred 80kg dog very big and very much a pussy cat.
she has a wonderful temperment & is great with kids. I love the way she rubs up against my leg & kinda leans on me..
If the government win , will they try to kill off other breeds as well.
AP whats your opinion on this , I remember you had a German shepard & he was also family..

MO · 06-05-2005, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo347

The more important question to be asked here is which breed is next???
Im a happy Rottie owner, sianne is a purebred 80kg dog very big and very much a pussy cat.
she has a wonderful temperment & is great with kids. I love the way she rubs up against my leg & kinda leans on me..
If the government win , will they try to kill off other breeds as well.
AP whats your opinion on this , I remember you had a German shepard & he was also family..

You have one very big Rottie,my bloke at his peak until cancer got him was 63kilos,might I suggest yours is a tad over weight,but then that depends on his/her height etc.

I am in total agreance my bloke was a big sook he would lick me to death or anyone else but if he felt threatened in any way he would communicate that as well.

What we have to remember is that dogs as with all animals can't talk and say.... hey **** off your giving me the shits or your threatening me.....they can only communicate with their actions.

Thornie · 06-05-2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo347

Im a happy Rottie owner, sianne is a purebred 80kg dog very big and very much a pussy cat.
she has a wonderful temperment & is great with kids. I love the way she rubs up against my leg & kinda leans on me...

ahaha i remember a builder i worked with on a job once his rottie thought it was a lap dog. He sat on me when i was sitting down leaning up against his ute when we were having a few beers after work one day

06-05-2005, 10:41 PM

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

true .it is the way the dog is bought up...
i own a huskie
and i believe it is the way the dogs are bought up .
fact german shephards were banned in australia between 1932 to 1965
why becouse of the same treatment the pitbull is getting now
fact
american staffies and pit bulls share the same blood lines

fact over 80% of pitbulls will now be sold as american staffies ....
fact what will the goverment do ......try to ban them .
the australian goverment realy needs to look at the owners of ALL DOGS to see if the owner is cabpable of bringing any dog up in the right way .

Quasi · 06-05-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

I have a Staffy built like a brick and a toy poodle... I know which one bites and it isn't the Staf. The public perseption of an aggresive dog is plain wrong in my books

My wife has a toy poodle X maltese terrier, and she is a biter...almost daily! Just yesterday morning she went me because she thought I was where I shouldn't be (not the case of course, just trying to kiss the wife when I went to work).

The problem is that she is over protective, but the wife won't see that.

In contrast I had a bull terrier X blue healer years ago (about 80% bully), and she was so gentle with the kids while they were growing up. she took to my young bloke as soon as he was born. She saw it as her job to protect him, as the smallest in the family.

06-05-2005, 11:29 PM

What is it with the Australian government and banning things, its like they ban 1 hobby a month.

eb_5litre · 07-05-2005, 01:00 AM

So what is the answer then?
We cant erradicate brainless dickheads so I guess we should stay inside.
I myself dont mind most dogs and agree its an owners issue but we cant control how everyone raises their dog so all that is left is staying inside.

My mate has a blue heeler and it has been babied all its life.... it gets treated better than some humans but if I ever look at it crosseyed it goes berko and lunges for me and I have never so much as raised my voice at it. I dont trust that breed at all... they belong on a farm as a work animal.

Of course banning a particular breed of dog is not the solution but what else is there.... we cant ban idiots.

FPV1974 · 07-05-2005, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

thats all there is to it
ppl are worried around my dog with there kids because she is a staffy-x and that she may bite them but she is the most placid dog you will ever meet if kids annoy her she does'nt bite, she just gets up and goes somewhere where the kids won't find her

I have to agree. I have a Rottie and we live with two chiuahiuahuas (or how ever you spell it) and my Rottie will let anyone who is invited into the yard in and my younger sisters and their friends can take my Rottie out for a walk and can walk in and out of the yard with out a problem but the little dogs attack any one including young kids.
I have worked as a Dog Trainer for 10 years and I have found it is the owner not the dog that is the problem. We should be putting more time into educating the public and socializing all dogs to stop the dog attacks. The only reason we don't see the smaller dogs on the lists of dangerous dogs is because they can not do the same amount of damage, and in most instances, if a proper investigation was done into smaller dogs being attacked, you would find that they started and would not concede dominance. . If all dogs were takin into consideration, it would be found that these small dogs bite more often and are more dangerous, but they can't cause as much damage. It is only due to their owners that any dog becomes a problem.

Thornie · 07-05-2005, 01:46 AM

my dog is spoiled to death she does get punished for wrong doings but is not punished for no reason at all
i tend to find that the smaller yap yap dogs are more vicious then big dogs

LOWAU · 07-05-2005, 02:20 AM

My cousin used to be a dog trainer, he pointed out that pitbulls are very good dogs but some can just "click", one minute the dog is playing with a person and then it just attacks with intension to kill.

xceler8shun · 07-05-2005, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWAU

My cousin used to be a dog trainer, he pointed out that pitbulls are very good dogs but some can just "click", one minute the dog is playing with a person and then it just attacks with intension to kill.

any dog can do that

LOWAU · 07-05-2005, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xceler8shun

any dog can do that

I know that but it is most common in these type/breed of dogs.

I still like the pitbull family of dogs, I even considered in getting an american staffie at one stage, but my cousin warned me so I stayed away. I'm looking at gettin a german sheppard (3rd smartest dog in the world).

xceler8shun · 07-05-2005, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWAU

I know that but it is most common in these type/breed of dogs.

I still like the pitbull family of dogs, I even considered in getting an american staffie at one stage, but my cousin warned me so I stayed away. I'm looking at gettin a german sheppard (3rd smartest dog in the world).

Spoken like someone who knows absolutly nothing of the breed at all.

And what proof do you have of this, or are you going on media hype and your cousins say that it is correct?

Go and have a looks at some stats of the dogs that have bitten people the most. American Pit Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers wont be on the top of the list.